The nature of this world

[elendal]

i was just wondering if anyone saw anything like this in a "dream", vision, obe or similar?

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=9578

if this thread violates any of the laws on this forum (yes, i've read them, and they do sound a bit too restrictive) moderators may feel free to delete it without any notice.

[AmelieJolie]

i have been thinking about all these things in a kind of similar way recently.

i have to ask, when somebody becomes aware of all these things (if they are true), what exactly is their purpose? i'm very cynical about having a purpose which is simply to help change the way others think and therefor set them free......because this has never worked in my experience.

i'm so confused about everything. how can i be sure of anything at all in this world? what is "real" and what is not? how we tell when we are fooling ourselves?

i had a profound experience as a child where i felt connected to god, this feeling of pure love pouring into my soul. it seemed to come from outside of me. i wanted to stay within it forever, but i had to get back to "real" life. it happened sort of spontaneously a couple of times or so (when i was praying because of nightmares or i was frightened), and i have not been able to get it back since. i don't know if it really was god, or just another trick of the matrix (manipulating my pituatry gland or something) to persuade me to become religious, as my family, though inactive at the time, were former members of the "mormon" church, which they later rejoined, because when i was 13 some missionaries came and i wanted to go (i was in it for a year, but left, because a lot of things didn't make sense to me, plus i couldn't tune into god in the temple, after which i severely hurt my knee by slipping on the floor). it was a very traumatic time for me "losing" my religion as such- i prayed every night but didn't get the answers i wanted- that it was true, but i kept hoping because my family put me under a lot of pressure when really all i wanted was some inner peace. losing my religion and realizing the extent to which people fool themselves in the world was totally, utterly heartbreaking for me.....and i don't think i'll ever get over that......amongst other things, such as not learning how to "fit in" during those crucial years.......

anyway, i must get my son ready for kindergarten now. that's the other thing. i might be able to free myself, but what about the poor two souls i've brought into this messed-up world? perhaps souls need to incarnate to find a way out, i don't know. or perhaps they only become trapped once we conceive them and give birth two them.

either way, i feel so confused and depressed about everything. my energy levels are very low due to loneliness- i have my two sons but i need more than that i guess, because the role of being a mother is incredibly demanding, emotionally.

i think about ending it all, but then i would cause pain to people. i'm trying to figure out if i am more of a burden dead or alive?
would i still be trapped in the matrix, or is the key to freedom to simply let go of the attachments of all its illusion and believe in one's own power to truly free themselves, no matter what they may have been brainwashed to believe?


love.

[AmelieJolie]

some more thoughts.

your dream, about the nature of this world and how everything may be an elaborate construction for the use of living creatures as an energy source for another race of beings who are also under control.......raises a lot of questions.......who is really at the core of all this and why? dark matter which simply is? or the misnomer lucifer and the luciferic consciousness?

or maybe, just maybe all it is is a dream within some greater consciousness which is where we all belong, have broken off into many forms of illusory separateness? a dream which it, we, eventually made so real, we have forgotten how to wake up, and therefor we hurt ourselves in ways which could never have been imagined before?

i don't know!

is there any way to really know? in my experience there is not, because there are so many different forms and layers of illusion, whatever we think or feel may be true....might just turn out to be another form of illusion. it's always been this way in my experience, but then again i did make a decision with my consciousness that my innermost desire was to search for the absolute truth, to try and find a way out of this spirit prison, to liberate others if i can......and you know what they say;- "ignorance is bliss".


i made a decision with my consciousness......call it free will if you like.

but then again, as far as "free will" goes, i have to wonder whether there really is any such thing, in truth, while we are in the body.

"to understand all is to forgive all".

"forgive them, they know not what they do".


exactly.

i feel that if the so-called veil wasn't in place (perhaps there is a different form of veil for each dimension)........the way i see it is that:

we would all understand we were all connected. we would be able to see into each other's hearts and souls because we wouldn't be blinded by the limitations of the flesh body matrix (or any other kind of body, for that matter).
if we could feel that we were all interconnected, there would be no desire to hurt anyone, because to hurt another would be to hurt yourself.


so why do our souls need to incarnate into a body in this dimension and in others, if all we really need to know is something we have just forgotten?
it's like being free, but somehow wandering off into a labyrinth out of curiosity, being held in there over many life-times through the seduction of many lies and forms of illusion.....then eventually, after the labyrinth has kept you as an energy source for a very long time, you realize that all you need to do if you want to become truly free again is simply to get back out again.


as far as making a difference in the world goes (through being positive), i have my doubts about this also.

what if there are certain laws within this matrix which mean that whatever happens, whether negative or positive, these two "opposing" forces (which aren't really opposing but are one)....will always make sure things are balanced out, in one way or another.

therefor, anything which uplifts, gives hope, makes us happy, expresses love, etc......are a bit like "the carrot on the stick", just serving to keep us in here, just keeping us sufficiently happy to put up with all the other things.
for what? for the purpose of feeding something which is at the core of it all? who knows exactly?


people always assume that the people thought of as "sane" and happy are the enlightened ones, the ones who have it all figured out.

what about the saying "ignorance is bliss"?

what if the people others view as insane and inferior due to their depression, etc (which the "sane" members of the population automatically assume is a weakness).....are really the ones who are the most "sane"?


i mentioned to an online friend/ acquaintance that for a time, during my teens i was a goth. she said she couldn't imagine me as a goth, because she saw me as "too much of a light-worker" to ever be one.
perceptions.
so i tried to explain that people sometimes have the wrong idea about goths, not that it really matters now as i gave all that up several years ago.


why do people often assume that just because a person is deeply spiritual, this automatically means that they should be a center of pure happiness and a tower of strength, whereas if you are depressed it must mean you know nothing?

i was reading about how mother teresa struggled profoundly with her faith/ relationship with god, even though this isn't something which is commonly known.


when i gave birth to my eldest son, all i wanted was to be the perfect mother. every time he made the smallest cry, i would go and pick him up, which some people tell you you shouldn't do, but it always comforts them, because if it didn't then why would it work?

anyway, to cut a long story short, i soon found out that being the perfect mother was simply impossible. i couldn't be his source of infinite strength.

unfortunately, my son happened to be one of these babies with colic, though his particular colic wasn't as extreme as some babies get.

this meant that he barely slept for more than two hours. the only way i could comfort him was to keep him on the breast, which was overwhelmingly exhausting, physically. i tried to express milk so someone could help give me a break, but i wasn't able to do this. in hindsight, it may have been better for me to allow a little formula, but at that time in my life, i was still under some of the indoctrination of the vegan world i had been a part of for a while (though i had eventually given it up, for a variety of reasons). there are non-dairy formulas, but i didn't want to give these either because i have concerns regarding soya.......

anyway......

the point i am trying to make is that the idea of something i read from buddhist teachings, i think, on a leaflet, which said:

"all happiness in the world stems from wishing others to be happy"

is flawed. i can see this now from my experiences .
being a completely perfectionist mother can be so draining that it runs the risk of one day leaving her completely drained.........

so i learned to let go. i learned that i needed to take care of myself, otherwise i wouldn't have the energy to take care of them.


but apart from that.....apart from this whole idea of service to others and saving the world.....i have to ask

what is it all for?


perhaps the problem is i'm just not enlightened enough?

i feel sort of bad for talking about negative thoughts on this forum. the reason i am talking about them is because, at the end of the day, what it all comes down to is i just don't know.

i am here at least to attempt to try and figure some of it out.

isn't that a positive thing?

[Kenneths149]

it is difficult. i understand the pain of loneliness. i unterstand and here the pain of things being not as we like but as they are. i hear the pain of struggle , fatique. i hear the pain of disappointment and the despair that can tempt us. it is a paradox. i was told this mantra by a friend who coresponded with an inmate in texas who prayered " i am okay even when i am not okay." i say this often for a i find that "it is the way it is." i accept life on lifes terms. i am powerless and i am not , these are paradoxes and i think we see this. how to deal with them? because i suffer from alcoholism , i practise the 12 steps and must rely on the wisdom of those who have the same disease and are recoverying. simple put "i cannot, he can, i will let him." it is a faith journey with a great deal of mystery and unknowns. oi love this prayer " lord though knowest better than i know my self... i don't know everything . even if i did it is to no avail! i am not in control of people places or events. it is humbling to realize the limits of my being and then to accept the greater love of a higher power. i can respond with honsety and sincerity, "lord you know better than i know myself!"
hope is in the dark, by faith, love is in the dark by holding to each other, " i am okay even when i am not okay." i honor the soul in prison who shared his heart this way. i reach out to you with my own scars and hope , i am with you.kenneths149

[AmelieJolie]

i have been thinking, souls who enter bodies- perhaps what happens to them is a bit like what happens in the story of the goddess, persephone? perhaps when we let go of all attachment (don't eat) of the material world, then we can truly be free and go home?

in the celestine prophecy, it talks about how we are caught in cycles of competition for each other's energy.

it talks about letting go of the cycle and connecting to "the source" so that we may be generators of energy, rather than relying on each other's transient form of energy.

how, may i ask, is this done in a physical body?

i know monks, etc have achieved a great amount of amazing things. but what if you don't have the time to meditate all the time, etc?

[elendal]

i cannot but smile when i see you asking the very same questions i had been asking myself for my whole life. the "opposing forces" you describe are exactly what i realized myself some time ago. i used a term "conflicting principles", but it's one and the same.

it was written some 4 months before i had that dream. it's a part of a long thread over at ad started by someone else, so i'll just quote a part of it here (you don't need to go through his problems, so i hope moderators will forgive me the waste of space):

hermetic law is actually a kind of interesting thing. it is known in the theory of organization (mostly company, but also applies to any other form of social organization) that psychology of the menagement (the top dogs) always propagates downwards throughout all the levels of organization. exactly "as above, so below".

the problem, as i see it, is that we are currently stuck on one of the middle levels of such organization - i call it "the hierarchy of power". it seems to me that describes it pretty well.

i suppose that at some moment in the past, some kind of beings living in the same world we live in, decided to create such organization for a simple reason - to establish and mantain control of needed resources. the resources are, of course, all the beings on the lower levels.

the funny part, and the pure cunningness of the plan, was to make every controlling level of organization (the race ruling over several lower levels) think it's at the top. just like we were taught in school - "human is at the top of the food chain", remember? so, just like we think we are at the top, i can only assume, so do the ones above us. that would, of course, also include some of the aliens we hear so much about.

now, i find that kind of organization rather disgusting, and more importantly, inherently unstable. we know from our own history that every empire collapsed sooner or later. this one is no different, it's just a matter of time.

i also have no doubt that there were others (other beings on all levels) who found this organization as repelling as i do. for you see, there is also another kind of organization. this other kind of organization i chose to call "the network". it looks just like that - a network of beings connected throughout all the different levels, cooperating between themselves rather than struggling for control.

so, from my point of view, what is really going on is the struggle between two possible organizations of the universe. and this struggle's been going on for a very, very long time. some may call it "a battle of good versus evil", but i prefer not to use emotionally charged terms when dealing with these things.

it looks simple enough up to this moment, doesn't it?

well, here comes the really, really interesting part...

neither of these organizations can ultimately prevail. the creator of this universe, who or whatever it was, incorporated two conflicting principles in this creation. the first one is the principle of freedom, and the second one is the principle of finite energy.

the first principle assures that no being will ever be able to completely control the universe, however high it gets, as some other beings will most certainly disagree with such a state of affairs. and since everyone is guranteed freedom to change, however low they are, there is always some chance to overturn the control at the top. it just comes down to probabilities.

the second principle assures that no being will ever be able to reach the top without gathering energy from a finite pool of energy in the universe. and since there are other beings gathering energy from the same pool, the only posible outcome will always be the struggle between the beings.

so, what does this tell us about the creator? strangly enough, nothing much. i certainly don't know for what purpose this universe was created, and every time i try to come up with a reason, i hit a brick wall of conflicting principles. on one hand, it seems we are free, and on the other, it seems we are limited and practically forced into struggle.

i wouldn't be surprised at all if no being, on any level, really knows the answer. and that the only difference between "the hierarchy of power" and "the network" is the estimation of the best way to break out of this universe, and finally find out what it's all about.

"the hierarchy of power" belives that following the principle of finite energy is the answer, and that if just one being is able to break out, maybe this universe will somehow end and others will be able to break out too. from their point of view, "the network" is just daydreaming and plainly stupid concept which can never succeed.

"the network" belives that following the principle of freedom is the answer, and that all beings should try to break free at the same moment, as a single unit of consciousness. from their point of view, "the hierarchy of power" is inherently unstable, and even if it succeeds, the being that breaks out will simply collapse on the other side. the binding force between constituting parts of such a being will be so weak that it will never be able to face what lies out there.

like a smoke, puff, and it's gone...

when i read your posts i can remember what it was for me to be in a similar position. i don't have children myself, but all the doubts, all the questions, all the times of depression are there, more or less the same. at some point it all lost any meaning. so many different theories out there, so many people telling you how to live your life. it was almost impossible to resist the pull to live, to be, what others tell you to be. it was extremely difficult for me to break out of it.

it had to do with leaving my job without any certainty i would find another one. i knew before leaving it i was faced with my fear of uncertainty, and i could tell myself i had to overcome it, but it took some great pressure and stupidities from my former boss to make me leave. i think that was the time i overcame all of my other fears as well. i can feel your fear coming out of your words. i don't know what it's about, but it feels as if you fear you won't be able to take for much longer whatever situation you are in. it feels as if you fear you are too weak to struggle with it. have you asked for help the people close to you? knowing myself, and how similar we seem in our doubts, i presume you didn't. you wish to be strong for the others who depend on you, but you feel drained, and afraid of asking for help. there must be someone who you would trust your life in. they may be the pillar for you to lean on to gather the strength you need.

i remember someone who is a mother as well, and who had to deal with some very hard problems for a very long time. maybe you will find some useful bits and pieces of information in hers posts:
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63891&highlight=

there is only one more thing i can put here. it helped me greatly to deal with it all. it will be another waste of space, so i apologize once again. it's an excerpt from carlos castenada's book "teachings of don juan".

i am going to teach you the secrets that make up the lot of a man of knowledge. you will have to make a very deep commitment because the training is long and arduous. a man goes to knowledge as he goes to war, wide awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance. going to knowledge or going to war in any other manner is a mistake, and whoever makes it will live to regret his steps. when a man has fulfilled those four requisites there are no mistakes for which he will have to account; under such conditions his acts lose the blundering quality of a fool's acts. if such a man fails, or suffers a defeat, he will have lost only a battle, and there will be no pitiful regrets over that. a man of knowledge is one who has followed truthfully the hardships of learning, a man who has, without rushing or without faltering, gone as far as he can in unraveling the secrets of power and knowledge.

to become a man of knowledge one must challenge and defeat his four natural enemies.

when a man starts to learn, he is never clear about his objectives. his purpose is faulty; his intent is vague. he hopes for rewards that will never materialize for he knows nothing of the hardships of learning. he slowly begins to learn- bit by bit at first, then in big chunks. and his thoughts soon clash. what he learns is never what he pictured, or imagined, and so he begins to be afraid. learning is never what one expects. every step of learning is a new task, and the fear the man is experiencing begins to mount mercilessly, unyieldingly. his purpose becomes a battlefield.

and thus he has stumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: fear!

a terrible enemy- treacherous, and difficult to overcome. it remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. and if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest and he will never learn. he will never become a man of knowledge. he will perhaps be a bully, or a harmless, scared man; at any rate, he will be a defeated man. his first enemy will have put an end to his cravings. it is not possible for a man to abandon himself to fear for years, then finally conquer it. if he gives in to fear he will never conquer it, because he will shy away from learning and never try again. but if he tries to learn for years in the midst of his fear, he will eventually conquer it because he will never have really abandoned himself to it. therefore he must not run away. he must defy his fear, and in spite of it he must take the next step in learning, and the next, and the next. he must be fully afraid, and yet he must not stop. that is the rule! and a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. the man begins to feel sure of himself. his intent becomes stronger. learning is no longer a terrifying task. when this joyful moment comes, the man can say without hesitation that he has defeated his first natural enemy. it happens little by little, and yet the fear is vanquished suddenly and fast.

once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity--a clarity of mind which erases fear. by then a man knows his desires; he knows how to satisfy those desires. he can anticipate the new steps of learning and a sharp clarity surrounds everything. the man feels that nothing is concealed.

and thus he has encountered his second enemy: clarity!

that clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. it forces the man never to doubt himself. it gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he sees clearly into everything. and he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is clear. but all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. if the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will be patient when he should rush. and he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning anything more. his second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of knowledge. instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. yet the clarity for which he has paid so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. he will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything. he must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. and a moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes.

and thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him anymore. this will not be a mistake. it will not be only a point before his eyes. it will be true power. he will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. he can do with it whatever he pleases. his ally is at his command. his wish is the rule. he sees all that is around him.

but he has also come across his third enemy: power!

power is the strongest of all enemies. and naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. he commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master. a man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. and suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. his enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man, but he will never lose his clarity or his power. a man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. power is only a burden upon his fate. such a man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power. once one of these enemies overpowers a man there is nothing he can do. it is not possible, for instance, that a man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways. once a man gives in he is through. if, however, he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it, his battle is still on. that means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. a man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself. he has to come to realize that the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. he must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. if he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. he will know then when and how to use his power.

and thus he will have defeated his third enemy.

the man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning, and almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: old age!

this enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won't be able to defeat completely, but only fight away. this is the time when a man has no more fears, no more impatient clarity of mind--a time when all his power is in check, but also the time when he has an unyielding desire to rest. if he gives in totally to his desire to lie down and forget, if he soothes himself in tiredness, he will have lost his last round, and his enemy will cut him down into a feeble old creature. his desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge. but if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate though, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. that moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough.

i hope some of this will help you in your struggle.

i don't know where it comes from, but i remember a specific feeling i once had, not in the life a remember. a feeling when i swore with everything i am that this world would be free.

it may be good to know there there are others out there who feel like i do, and who give the whole of themselves, without any reservation, to that cause. they don't care what happens to them. there is no meaning in living in this never-ending circle, so they have nothing to lose.

it is my experience that only when one has nothing to lose and cling to, only when one lets go of oneself, one's fears, one's hopes, one's dreams - one becomes capable of fighting against this condition we are in. and, also, one becomes capable of giving oneself fully to whatever one chooses to believe in.

but, first, one needs to rest and gather strength. everything else comes naturally.

[AmelieJolie]

thank you very much for those thoughts.


i don't know where it comes from, but i remember a specific feeling i once had, not in the life a remember. a feeling when i swore with everything i am that this world would be free.

similar with me....today in fact i said the same thing in a sort of prayer, shortly after writing here!


~ how exactly, can we go about changing it?

isn't it mostly in the "eye of the beholder"?

how can we teach true empathy to those who don't feel empathy?

i say, take the veil away. allow us to feel how we are all interconnected.

even the evil psychopaths deserve a chance.....for i personally believe that the only real evil is ignorance itself. (ignorance being blindness to the unity of all life and all beings). ;)

[zephyr]

i really resonate with both of your posts. elendal, it’s uncanny how i’ve had experiences with very similar content. here they are in brief, without going into detail: (they happened in 1999 and 2000 while i was in contact with a being from some other dimension).

the “bus”: obe: i was taken by a being i called my ‘guide’ to a city, it was at night and we had to get on this bus which took us to visit certain deceased relatives and friends that were now living in this city. i knew we were somewhere in the astral.

the “thing” on your back: during a meditation: by the same guide in a different place, i was made aware of something on my back, i too looked over my left shoulder when a person in a long white robe reached out and grabbed the thing from my back a threw it into a lake of fire. i was told the thing on my back (which i could now see looked like a snake) was “the big lie of the world.”

“repeating patterns”: after each meditation (when i used to meditate) upon opening my eyes, i would see hexagons surrounding me as if i was smack in the middle of a bee-hive structure. this structure was always a light yellow color and would gradually begin to fade away within a few minutes.

“masters”: another meditation with the same guide into another astral plane: like the way most near death experiences are described, i could feel myself leaving my body. i was traveling through a long spiraling tunnel that was becoming lighter and lighter until i could see a brilliant light at the end. as i got closer i could see what looked like jesus and tons of other people in white robes looking up at me radiating a love that was indescribable. i thought i was going home and felt blissful. suddenly a huge flat, circular rock came down in front of the opening and dropped like a guillotine just before i could get through. then i could feel myself being pulled backwards through the tunnel again and snapped into my body – i was extremely disappointed to be back in my body. i asked my guide why he stopped me from going on?

he said, “it’s a trap.”

my mind instantly filled with a knowing; that what many people think of as heaven is really just a place trapped in the astral – including guys like jesus and other masters.

these are just a few of my experiences that i was guided through during those years. i kept a journal and wrote them all down in detail.
another interesting thing spoken by this being was, “there is no freedom, there is only order.”

concerning sto/sts, and the word ‘service’. from what i’ve learned, feelings are the key because serving others just to be in service to gain brownie points or for any other reason won’t work. when a person begins to feel love and compassion, it must be a genuine feeling and if so, a conscious effort to serve others isn’t even there. there is no effort or conviction involved.

example: when i quit slaughtering animals (as mentioned in my post “oneness”) it wasn’t out of conviction… it was out of pure love because i was able to feel my connection to them.

however, to become a vegetarian was an effort to be of sto (in this case, to animals), and was derived from conviction. it didn’t work! maybe it never will, so all i can do is eat only as much meat as my body really needs and to be grateful to the animal that had to die for my health.

when i feel a true loving connection, that in itself is the higher frequency which opens an awareness and extends itself to other areas of my life, perhaps in small ways to begin with, but it grows.

thank you for your posts. i’ve found them both enlightening and informative, a sort of re-awakening for me. :d

zephyr

[elendal]

zephyr, it is good to see even more people involved in this struggle. i've felt it for a couple of years now, ever since 2005 when i started posting on forums, that everything is going to change. i don't know what it will be like, but it will be an awesome sight to witness when beings break free from this contraption we live in.

everything i've seen is moving in that direction, even with all of the opposition from some - those who still don't understand their true position within this world. we are all in the same mess here. no exceptions, however hard some may try to believe in their wishful illusions.


the only real evil is ignorance itself.
quite true, and that ignorance is enforced both here in the physical, and up there in the astral (or heaven, or whatever one may choose to call it). it's enforced everywhere within that hypersphere i saw. ignorance is a form of control.

there is nothing to teach others. they must learn on their own, and you, if you wish, can only help them on the way. but you can't do that in the condition you are now in. you need strength to give strength.

you are the first person you have to help.

[AmelieJolie]

when i first came to this place, i was in awe of the amazing things i'd discovered.


however, the more i think about it, the thing that really bothers me is the whole issue of so-called "free will".

the more i think about it, there really isn't any such thing as "free will".

any "free will" that we possess, in the purest and truest sense, is, i feel, very small.

we are like "sparks of the divine", of infinite consciousness, encased inside this biological robot body, slaves to the ebb and flow of our personal environments, which we have no control over- only influence- for this is a reality of our collective consciousness, not just our own.


i feel that there is no such thing as free will.....because......if we could only life the veil....if we could only allow others to see and feel the true unity of all beings and all of creation.....then there wouldn't be any evil, for goodness sake!!!!

it is not people who are evil!!! it is only their ignorance!

we are all innocents and we all deserve freedom from this pointless, perpetual slavery.


i am cynical too about white robed beings going about in these space-crafts. very advanced beings wouldn't need to use a machine, for one thing.
another thing is that i've heard that the "bad guys" can dress up as, pretend, to be "the good guys".
you only have to look to religious scriptures across all the cultures to see how we've been manipulated by these "more advanced" beings since the very beginnings of time as we think of it........


only those who are serving others by at least 50% will get through?

well, i suppose if you believe in free will, then it seems more or less justified.....when the people who aren't choosing to serve others by this amount aren't going to witness death and destruction, but are only going to be taken to another earth.....that is if the beings giving this guidance are telling the truth. :(

the thing is though, it doesn't make sense to me.
the whole belief in "free will" doesn't make sense to me.

i do trust david wilcock. i can see a pure heart, honesty and a gentleness of spirit just through his eyes.

however, i can't trust these white robed beings....not just yet.

joseph smith, the prophet for the mormon church, was visited by such a being known as moroni. it all sounds very, very similar.....i can even see many similarities in the ascension stuff and the teachings of the mormon church. they too believe in different 'kingdoms', or dimensions.....and believe practically no-one will go to hell, unlike some of the other religions.....
there are many similarities in mormonism and freemasonry.....and i think many of us will have heard a bit about them!


i hope i will be able to find some answers soon.

sincerely, love.

[Chris Hamilton]

as this site does reference the law of one books as channelled by carla reuckert, i must interject here for all of you responding to this thread.

free will is a major component of loo philosophy, so may i suggest that you read the books? they are free online at llresearch.org, and david has an outline of the books on dc. the link to the outline is in our announcements section. thank you, chris

[AmelieJolie]

thank you, i did take a little look, and what i read i found a little depressing- it would seem that we are being manipulated by others.

[AmelieJolie]

perhaps there are other dimensions where, rather than having a pyramid structure where various beings battle for control and eat each other, you can have more of a network of co-operation and an energy source which allows us to give, but doesn't require anyone to suck the life out of another......

[AmelieJolie]

this world is the devil's playground; there is no good reason for suffering.....there is no free will in ignorance or in blindness.....

"ohana" means "family." "family" means "no one gets left behind."

[elendal]

there is free will, but not in the sense people usually like to think about it. like "i can choose what i want, and i want it now". that also includes "i want all people to understand they are one". that's not going to work. there are myriads of free wills out there competing over one thing or another.

as i see it, the most focused intent, or will, always prevails... until a more focused one comes along. that seems to be one of the rules of this world.

i don't know what time this is i use this metaphor - a cow could feel all the love in the world for humans leading it to a slaughterhouse, and it wouldn't change a fate of a single cow. that basically says it all. if cows focused more intent on fighting back, instead of chewing grass, no sane person would ever try to lead a cow to a place like that.

it is my understanding that most beings are just observers, here and elsewhere, and their fates are always being decided by others... until they, themselves, take decisions into their own hands... or hooves... or paws... or claws... or whatever.

ameliejolie, do i sense a bit of anger in your words? ;)

justified anger is definitely better than self-pity in which you seem to have been for a very long time, and it can help you pull yourself out of your state. anger requires way more energy than self-pity, so it seems you are gathering strength after all.

it's too early to say this, but i don't know how long i'll be posting here - there will come a time when you'll no longer need that anger. so, keep an eye on yourself, and don't overdo it. :)

also, i apologize for speaking "against" (or at least, not in favor of) the power of love here. this is, after all, a forum that deals with the channeled information that is in favor of it.

i respect both the message and the messenger. however, my personal experiences tell me love is not that powerful in this world, and i only speak from my experiences.

i am aware that some may not like what i'm saying, but there is no nice way to say the truth. one can either take it, whether one likes it or not, or one can ignore it.

i also hope i haven't crossed the line with this post. there is so much more to say, but i'm afraid my credit here is being slowly chipped away, so i won't be speaking of this anymore.

[MarkM]

just a few interesting snippets..




ra: the higher self protects when possible and guides when asked, but the
force of free will is paramount. the seeming contradictions of determinism
and free will melt away when it is accepted that there is such a thing as
true simultaneity. the higher self is the end result of all the development
experienced by the mind/body/spirit complex up to that point (i.e., up to
the end of 6th density.)

(b3, 150)

so, perhaps apparent limitations on free will are part of the set-up or rules of the game.


ra: step by step, the creator becomes that which may know (or experience) itself, and the portions of the creator partake less
purely in the power of the original word or thought. the creation itself is a
form of consciousness which is unified.

the creator does not properly create as much as it experiences itself. (b1, 65)

so, it seems that, in a manner of speaking, as the creator experiments with manyness in an effort to experience itself, a certain confusion or forgetting by the 'portions' takes place, as a necessary trade-off for gaining of experience.


question: the 1st distortion of intelligent infinity is free will. can you give a definition of this distortion?

ra: in this distortion of the law of one it is recognized that the creator will know itself (or experience itself). (b2, 7) the primal distortion is free will. (b2, 8)

question: the creator then grants total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing. is this correct? (b2, 7)

ra: this is quite correct. (b2, 7)

question: then all other distortions spring from this first distortion, is this correct?

ra: it is both correct and incorrect.

in your illusion of physical existence all experience springs from the law of free will or the way of
confusion.

so, according to ra, our personal experiences are literally the experiences of the creator. you can't really blame some outer agency for your dissatisfactions with life- it was you who set it up this way!


ra: the 1st distortion, free will, finds a focus which is known to you as logos, the creative principle or love. this focus may be called the 2nd
distortion. (b1, 148)

the third distortion is light..


ra: the origin of all energy is the action of free will upon love. the nature of all energy is light, including the inner light
which is the guiding star of the self. this is the true nature of all entities.
(b3, 30)


ra: a certain amount of awareness of the inner light is necessary to attract the in-streaming light upward spiraling from the south
magnetic pole of being (the toot chakra), (b3, 46)

i can only surmise here that the 'toot' chakra is the one on the bottom.;)


ra: this is the only place of forgetting. it is necessary for the 3rd density entity to forget what it really is so that the
mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated
consciousness complex. (b1, 193)

this for me answers so much. we (humanity on earth) have just relatively recently attained individuated self awareness, up from the group or herd awareness of second density. we're in a sometimes brutal, but necessary stage of becoming. (also, mercifully short)


question: why must an entity come into an incarnation and lose conscious memory of what he wants to do? why can’t he accomplish the
same thing in between incarnations when the entity is aware of what he wants to
do? (b2, 132)

ra: were there no potentials for misunderstanding…, there would be no experience. (b3, 24)

meditate on this one...ra means this quite literally. this also helps explain why such huge spiritual progress can be made by each of us during an incarnation. the hugeness of opportunity in this short little mystery-filled lifetime can scarcely be over-estimated.

as we awaken to the full, stunning parameters of the game, love, light, acceptance and celebration expand to include every condition, everything and everyone.

-mark

[charles obscure]

i respect both the message and the messenger. however, my personal experiences tell me love is not that powerful in this world, and i only speak from my experiences.

i am aware that some may not like what i'm saying, but there is no nice way to say the truth. one can either take it, whether one likes it or not, or one can ignore it.

i also hope i haven't crossed the line with this post. there is so much more to say, but i'm afraid my credit here is being slowly chipped away, so i won't be speaking of this anymore.

there are many definitions of the word love. i define love as the essence -- as the all, as the reconciler and beyond polarity. by this definition your view is paradoxical as there is nothing that can take place in this reality if not through love. love is not very powerful? you are love, your very thought process is made possible through love. it is easy to succumb to the illusion and feel love is not very powerful with all the lights turned down and the veil around us. the idea is to find the love within yourself, in a context that has meaning. ie - not doing it for personal gain or expectation. if this is what you define as being 'powerful', - - what you observe within our limitations and those who can impose their will over others - you need to stop looking without and seek to awaken within.

[Art]

mark -

that was absolutely excellent! thank you for putting that together for us! :d

art

[IAmSaidI]

hello again, amelie

it is good that you are not accepting everything blindly. you are skeptical, and that is you exercising your free will : )

i just wanted to say that some of the similarities you are finding in different religious beliefs (the existence of dimensions, ascension, etc.) is evidence that service to others beings have been trying to help us for eons. but their message of love and their attempts to help us raise the vibratory level of the planet have been consistently distorted.
when i find myself feeling angry at being “stuck” here, i remind myself that i am here, veil in place, to help raise the planet. if the veil was suddenly lifted, it would be impossible to live in 3-d. we would all want to abandon our lives to feel whole again, which we probably wouldn’t feel anyway because we would know that we left things unfinished — the world would be left in a state of dross.

i know that when we see real suffering in the world, it is hard to have faith in some higher purpose. without trying to infringe on your free will, i would encourage you to take another look at the law of one.
hang in there. we’re not just in this, we’re in this together.

[AmelieJolie]

so, do you think ra is saying that our higher self choses experience for us that we may not, in our present level of consciousness, literally chose?
because our higher self is in a position to be more aware of what is best for us?


some thoughts came to me just now, before coming back, which are simply:

maybe it's all in the doors of perception.


it's great being able to share thoughts.

thank you to everyone. ;)

[jpstephens2012]

my, what a great deal of confusion here. i don't have all the answers by any means, but i know who does. what god's purpose is in putting us all here is beyond my knowing, and from what i gather beyond the knowing of even the 7th octave. at first you'd think that an omnipotent, omnipresent being would have little need for such foolishness. what purpose would such a being have in creating such a thing as this universe in the first place? it wouldn't have been done for our benefit because we did not exist until his thought created us. what was there before? dare we say that god failed to understand himself? i doubt that. was he lonely? if that were so then he still is. our separation from god is only an illusion. do we dare to place ourselves on level with the creator that we might provide him with company? i don't think so. what was it? what possible benefit could a supreme being get from the creation of this reality? one thing seems to be for sure, nothing can come from nothing. what exactly happened in the beginning? what was there before the beginning? if there was anything at all, then that wasn't the beginning. it has been said there is no beginning and there is no end. that would indicate a sphere. no wonder that particular geometric shape repeats itself over and over again throughout existence. no, there is absolutely no way we can ever answer these types of questions until perhaps we graduate 7th density.

what then, can we determine is the purpose of life on any scale? why is there a duality? to what possible benefit could all this strife come? i think i may have an answer. it is a driving force behind everything in nature. it is reflected perfectly in every living thing. it is the answer to the age old question, "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" the answer to that question is the egg. what is the promise of the egg? reproduction. god desires to reproduce just as every other living thing does. the concept of reproduction involves the concept of duality, just as a cell such as the egg starts with division. the one becomes two, the two become four, etc. but here is the catch. what possible use would there be if every cell were exactly the same as every other? each a clone of the previous? there still would be no variety, each exactly the same. there would be no difference in thought, no difference in appearance, no difference at all. everything would be like a white piece of paper. but if you place a black dot on the paper then there is the potential for something different and suddenly it becomes interesting. look! there is a black dot on that piece of paper! it is different from all other pieces of white paper! duality is born. it makes no difference where on the paper the dot appears, it still invents duality. if it is in the center then there is an inside and an outside. if it is on the side then there is a left and a right side, or a top and a bottom side, or a front and a back side.

now we have purpose. diversity. the potential to be different. but still, that is only part of the picture. in order for that dot to move anywhere it must be acted upon by a force. this action requires the law of cause and effect. anything "acted" upon by anything requires energy and the aether was born. you can extend that line in any direction but it will still be under the control of the force acting upon it. therefore it's potentiality is always known. can we say boring? there is no real life there. ahh! but imbue that dot with the concept of free will and now you have the potential for unlimited variation. the concept of motion is here introduced. motion requires in turn another concept, that of time. thus we have established the concept of time/space. now we have another problem! with the granting of free will there is no control to prevent the dot (dark) from going all over the place until there is no white space left! at best it will bring into being a new concept, that of chaos! there is no order, there are no limits, there is no meaning to it all. so there will be meaning, it is necessary to bring into the tapestry the concept of order. order is achieved by structure. structure is achieved by the application of geometry and math. obviously random structure still will not of itself achieve order. therefore, rules or laws must be established by which structure can bring order out of chaos. now we have all the necessary requirements for creation. one of the first laws to be established is the law of attraction. the law of attraction establishes the magnetic nature of all things. "that, that is like unto itself, is drawn." next, we can't just have organized structures just popping up all over the place! the next rule to be established was the law of deliberate creation. "anything at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an equal or greater force. anything in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an equal and opposite force." of course, none of this will be of any use unless there is at some point, something that is acted upon by a force greater than itself. even with free will established. the dot has no ability to replace the white space next to it. since all things have free will, there then is a need for a stimulus to start the ball rolling. this stimulus is provided by another law, the law of allowing.

you can take this train of thought anywhere you wish. i just provide it as a means to stimulate your thought. we very definately have free will. everything appears to come from one original source, and we definately are all one. diversity is the ultimate purpose of creation. positive and negative are two sides of the same coin of duality, without which there would be no creation. we are indeed gods in the making.

namaste;)

[charles obscure]

i like this song, i think b/c it reminds me of my youth, i feel the lyrical content resonates w/ the state of things/law of one...i often can find so much peace in a simple song, some will enjoy, some will just hear a cheezy tune from the '80s :d

take it as you will

enjoy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yqcqndfhjxo

[elendal]

... we are indeed gods in the making.
those are all great thoughts. however, i personally prefer to take one step at a time.

we may indeed be "gods in the making", but...

i just love using metaphors. :)

here's another one.

imagine a man walking in the desert. he is thirsty, desperate. he suddenly sees an oasis in the distance. at that moment, that oasis is the fulfillment of all of his hopes and desires. he will finally have a chance to drink from the source. the oasis may be quite real, mind you, not just a mirage. so, the man, in all of his desire for relief, runs toward oasis... in his blissful ignorance that there is a cliff right in front of him. and only when he steps though the empty air, and his body starts inevitable journey toward the earth far below, he realizes he was acting foolishly. but, by then, it's all too late.

what i'm saying here that we need a more practical approach. look carefully, and take one step at a time. this is the world we live in, and as long as we are in it, there are cliffs and cliffs to be wary of, and climb instead of fall off.


it is easy to succumb to the illusion and feel love is not very powerful with all the lights turned down and the veil around us.
love, however you define it, is what people believe love is, and it is very easily abused in this world. that is what i mean by "it's not that powerful". love cannot prevent being used and abused. it just doesn't have that power. it has some other powers, but not that one. other emotions are more powerful in preventing abuse. anger is one, for example, as i've already said. no being, none to my knowledge, will feel comfortable when it's faced with and angry opponent. a really angry opponent, strongly determined to defend its freedom.

however, anger is a good tool only in the beginning. it takes just too much energy.

in the end, what is really needed is just pure determination, intent, will. there are many words for it. love, sorrow, anger, and all the rest of the bunch become just emotions. each no better or worse than the other one. each has its place, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

[jpstephens2012]

well... the cup is half empty or the cup is half full, it's up to our free will to choose. the final state of the cup is determined by the choice we make.


in your right hand is life.

in your left hand is death.

both are real. both exist in great proliferation all around us.

either one can be focused on, and become the sum total of what we see and experience in this reality.

we can prove that either one exists by our focus -- by how we interpret what we see.

- david

[billybobbutterball]

when i first came to this place, i was in awe of the amazing things i'd discovered.


however, the more i think about it, the thing that really bothers me is the whole issue of so-called "free will"

the more i think about it, there really isn't any such thing as [b]"free will"

any "free will" that we possess, in the purest and truest sense, is, i feel, very small.

we are like "sparks of the divine", of infinite consciousness, encased inside this biological robot body, slaves to the ebb and flow of our personal environments, which we have no control over- only influence- for this is a reality of our collective consciousness, not just our own.


i feel that there is no such thing as free will.....because......[b]if we could only life the veil....if we could only allow others to see and feel the true unity of all beings and all of creation.....then there wouldn't be any evil, for goodness sake!!!!

it is not people who are evil!!! [b]it is only their ignorance!

we are all innocents and we all deserve freedom from this pointless, perpetual slavery.


i am cynical too about white robed beings going about in these space-crafts. very advanced beings wouldn't need to use a machine, for one thing.
another thing is that i've heard that the "bad guys" can dress up as, pretend, to be "the good guys".
you only have to look to religious scriptures across all the cultures to see how we've been manipulated by these "more advanced" beings since the very beginnings of time as we think of it........


only those who are serving others by at least 50% will get through?

well, i suppose if you believe in free will, then it seems more or less justified.....when the people who aren't choosing to serve others by this amount aren't going to witness death and destruction, but are only going to be taken to another earth.....that is if the beings giving this guidance are telling the truth.

the thing is though, it doesn't make sense to me.
the whole belief in "free will" doesn't make sense to me.

i do trust david wilcock. i can see a pure heart, honesty and a gentleness of spirit just through his eyes.

however, i can't trust these white robed beings....not just yet.

joseph smith, the prophet for the mormon church, was visited by such a being known as moroni. it all sounds very, very similar.....i can even see many similarities in the ascension stuff and the teachings of the mormon church. they too believe in different 'kingdoms', or dimensions.....and believe practically no-one will go to hell, unlike some of the other religions.....
there are many similarities in mormonism and freemasonry.....and i think many of us will have heard a bit about them!


i hope i will be able to find some answers soon.

sincerely, love.

dear amelie

i didn't realize the level of hurt you are struggling with -- such doesn't show up in many of your communications. you most often seem full of questing vigor touched with a dose of sauciness. :)

agreed. as you can witness, life is a tremendous struggle! some wit once commented that if life was going too smoothly then one wasn't pulling his/her share of the load. you have obviously challenged yourself mightily! from the readings it is pointed out that many souls are so ambitiously eager to accomplish a geat deal in their incarnation they bite off more than they can easily chew. but we are assured by these questionable guys in the long white robes that nothing goes to waste; there are simply no mistakes.

i see that i have just a few moments before i have to leave, so this posting will be sketchy. (maybe i can continue later.)

and, yeah, i came from a mormon background on my father's side, so i know something about it. in fact my great grandfather was a president of the 70. i know that he ritualistically consigned his descents to follow him to whatever, forever .... ! talk about a gross violation of free will! the book of mormon has to rank as one of the lowest register's on the scale of believability. it set a record on the use of the repetitive, "and it came to pass":rolleyes:
i don't recommend anyone joining the church of jesus christ and latter day saints -- unless they are aiming for a career in the fbi -- or think it a neat idea to assemble a harem in the utah wilds.

yes, some "ets" from the lower densities do use physical space ships. others examples are described as thought forms. your objection really misses the mark. do a search on llresearch.org. also there is a book available on that site called secrets of the ufo. (it predates the ra material but is still quite valuable.)

about the question of free will. people keep talking about free will -- taking it for a given -- without ever stopping to first try and define the term. it is one of the most difficult question in philosphy and theology.

my favorite theologian, w.g.t. shedd used much of 1800 pages in his 1894 magnum opus, dogmatic theology wrestling with this problem. i've never seen anything better. trouble is contemporary theologians don't understand what he said ...they pay shedd lip service -- even misuse some of the terminology -- but it is obvious that they just don't "get it."

last year i posted a list of shedd's negative and positive definitions of the will on the previous divine cosmos site... but i can't find it via a search of the archives. :eek: in fact i can't even find myself listed in the archives (double eeek!)

a concise, workable description concerning the will goes something like this: "the freedom of the will is the inclination of the permanent spiritual self." for better or worse the so-called freedom of the will is found in an individual's power to self-determination...no more, no less. its not so much what we can do or can't do, its that we express our nature our vital choices are not really free because they are governed by our nature. spastic actions of mere caprice cannot be really considered real examples of free will as we like to think of it.

one can make a choice to start smoking...then develop the habit. one cannot later painlessly eliminate the habit by using a mere wave-of-the-hand free-will choice... by an act of the will a suicide can jump off a cliff...but can't reverse the action by a belated free will choice.

i'm getting desperate trying to help! look! get hold of a copy of the third millenium. it will smooth your mood!

gotta go!!!

freelove/freewillbill:)

[charles obscure]

love, however you define it, is what people believe love is, and it is very easily abused in this world. that is what i mean by "it's not that powerful". love cannot prevent being used and abused. it just doesn't have that power. it has some other powers, but not that one. other emotions are more powerful in preventing abuse. anger is one, for example, as i've already said. no being, none to my knowledge, will feel comfortable when it's faced with and angry opponent. a really angry opponent, strongly determined to defend its freedom.

however, anger is a good tool only in the beginning. it takes just too much energy.

in the end, what is really needed is just pure determination, intent, will. there are many words for it. love, sorrow, anger, and all the rest of the bunch become just emotions. each no better or worse than the other one. each has its place, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

love just is. its not something i feel that can be grouped in with 3rd density emotions...your analogy is like saying an angry man who abuses someone is more powerful than the force with which all in the physical world was created.

you seem to be basing your ideas on what can be observed in the day to day energy transactions within the context of the 'illusion'. and/or the ability to control what you percieve to be desirable and undesirable events occuring.

the use of 'love' in an abusive situation is a dependent variable varying on how much love an individual is able to bring forth from within themselves. if your defintion of love is simply to say a nice thing, or to act in a certain way, your defintion misses the mark. love is a way of being, not necessarily dependent on specific action or word. this 'state of being' has a profound effect on ones surroundings and effects events on a subconscious, metaphysical level which ultimately filters down to the menial events you may observe within the context of our illusion. there is much going on beneath the surface!

if we could all easily call upon the power of the one to get us out of any undesirable situation, that doesnt leave much room for learning, growth, polarization, free will or choice, basically this existence would be pretty pointless.

[elendal]

that is a great advice david wilcock gave, but i have this impression you don't see the whole of it. the point is that you have to focus on something in order to see it.

without focus there is no seeing, no knowing, no understanding. you can focus on either reality, as it is, beautiful or ugly in the moment you look at it, or you can focus on what you wish it to look like. both are valid, but should be used for completely different purposes.

for, example, have you ever had a really painful surgery, or maybe a dentist operation? i've had some of those experiences. what is the first thing you try to do when you feel the pain? focus on something else, something beautiful, in order to not feel the pain? it's so natural reaction that i'm often surprised how people don't see it. physical pain, spiritual pain, it's all the same. we tend to focus on something else in order not to think about it.

focusing on the reality is the first thing one has to do. if you don't know what reality looks like, how are you ever going to know how to change it? it takes a great deal of pain to see it for what it really is. only after you see where you stand, you can focus on where you want to be. but, as i said, there are myriads of free wills out there, competing over one thing or another, so you shouldn't really expect your every wish will just automatically be fulfilled.

the only way out of it all, that i'm aware of, is to help others understand in what kind of the world they all live in. as long as some beings are still believing in their wishes, instead of knowing what reality is, there will be one being or another out there trying to impose its will upon others... hoping it will all pay off in the end. i call that line of thinking simply "a merchant's mentality - put some energy into something, and expect great rewards in return". that line of thinking is the most common mistake a being, not just a human one, will make.

give your best and expect nothing in return. that is the only way out.

[Kenneths149]

as i read the thoughts here i began to remember the scripture that says we are sheep and each has gone his own way. i don't mean to trivilize or infantalize the metaphor. i think we are like sheep in that we follow as a collective and we al;so wander as a collective. we also love as a collective and hate as collective. this i thinkis a definite connection to group psychology and also our connection to divine intelligence. the ideal i ahev is kindness andi have chosen this as demonstrated in service as a high school teacher and chaplain. it is difficult job. ti is like hitting cliffs often hoping that their is a direct way to the oasis. however life sailing to get to your destination there is hte need to tact orn a zizag up to the mark. as in sailing the winds , the boat ,the crew and skipper work as a team. all together the skipper is as good as his crew. so all we are like sheep as good as our leader. i think.kenneths149i hope i am making some sense.

[jpstephens2012]

i respectfully disagree regarding the point. the point of his statement is that you have the free will to choose what you focus on in the reality that surrounds you. what you choose to focus on, whether it be the positive or the negative aspects of that reality, for both exist in unlimited abundance, will determine the sum of your own reality.

it is a simple application of the law of attraction at work. it does not decrease the abundance of the opposite of your focus, but it does decrease it's appearance in your personal experience. over time, if your focus is on the positive, less and less of the negative will be allowed into your experience. this also applies to group consciousness as well, because it is a primary law of creation.

your relative success in applying this law is largely dependent upon your emotional investment. there are really only two emotions. one feels good, the other feels bad. both of these emotions are communication from your inner self. if what you are feeling is bad, then your inner self is telling you that what you are focusing on is not in keeping with what you really want, as decided by yourself prior to this incarnation. by changing your focus to what makes you feel good, you increase the power available to those things and decrease the power available to those things that make you feel bad.

when this is applied on a massive scale by the cooperation of a multitude of individuals, then true change can be brought about. this is the problem with many of the so-called truth sites such as infowars. even though a lot of the information provided there is in fact true, it draws focus to the very things that you do not want, giving them power to continue. not only does it draw your focus away from what you really want, but it does so by drawing out very strong emotion. the information does have it's place however, it serves to awaken us to the need to focus more on the positive.

once again it is a matter of focus. when mother teresa was asked whether she would participate in an anti-war rally, she replied that she certainly would not, but were there a peace rally she would gladly participate. it's all a matter of focus. simply, we need to focus strongly and emotionally on what we really want, not on what we don't want.

we do agree on one thing though. spirituality is not an atm machine. one should certainly deposit freely, not expecting return. it's much more like a certificate of deposit, it does pay out in the long run with much compounded interest.:)

[AmelieJolie]

bbb,


i didn't realize the level of hurt you are struggling with -- such doesn't show up in many of your communications. you most often seem full of questing vigor touched with a dose of sauciness. :) funny. :d


yes, some "ets" from the lower densities do use physical space ships. others examples are described as thought forms. your objection really misses the mark. do a search on llresearch.org. also there is a book available on that site called secrets of the ufo. (it predates the ra material but is still quite valuable.)

why does it? moroni was one of them. one of the greatest conspiracy researchers says that the mormon church is another front for the actual illuminati.

synchronicity....wow. it's everywhere.

my parents have seen ufo's.

my brother was born on the same day as joseph smith. he also looks a lot like him! (a strong believer in the church, very brainy and popular too- he's a lawyer).

this conspiracy researcher's work i am drawn to.....i was thinking about how he is from the same town as my father.....and how both he and my other brother got arthritis at a very early age......hmm.......
perhaps we're all aliens? :eek: :d

anyway, i'm off to bed. back again tomorrow!

night, night.

[elendal]

love just is. its not something i feel that can be grouped in with 3rd density emotions...
and, having said that - you're on the right track! :)

what we perceive as love is what we believe love is.

what you have in mind is something altogether different. you can't call it "love" since you'll just confuse people. just like i confused you. ;) what we need is a new word for this something you speak of as "love".

btw, love is a very real emotion in the astral. i had even exploded myself once by filling up with energy that felt like pure, unconditional love. it was so overwhelming (which was my intent at the time) that my astral body couldn't take it. it literary exploded.

looking back, i can only assume my intent was to free my experiences from the confinement of my astral body, so that a being i met could integrate them into himself if he wished to. i was really impressed by that being. it had so much more to learn, and i felt so close to it...

very strange things can be done in that non-physical world out there. i really died then, but i didn't really die. it's still a mystery to me what i actually did.

[elendal]

by changing your focus to what makes you feel good, you increase the power available to those things and decrease the power available to those things that make you feel bad.
your points are quite valid, except for this one.

if i understand you correctly, what you say is that if you're feeling good, that is the ultimate sign that you are doing all the right things in life? this surely can't be your point. why don't we just take anti-depressants and live "happily ever after"?

also, we seem to again be confusing concepts. focusing on something is a way of seeing it. intending what to do with what you see if a completely different thing. you can't intend to do anything if you don't know where you are. focusing on either positive or negative too much turns into intention to keep the situation as it is.

i don't know if i'll describe this so that people can understand...

one knows that something is, and one feels secure in the known situation. we are all so afraid of change, any change, for better or worse. clinical psychology is full of patients who are afraid of getting well. their illness is the state of being they know so well, and being cured will put them in the situation they don't know at all. the fear of the unknown is so overpowering, that you can't even imagine it until you try to change yourself.

take one step toward the real understanding, and the pure panic overwhelms you. it's simply too terrifying. simply put, you start feeling very, very bad. if that fear stops you out cold, then you've lost any chance of understanding.

[AmelieJolie]

as cathy o'brien says, there is really nothing to fear.

the human spirit is capable of overcoming all odds. (just look at her and dave pelzer, for example).

all we need to do is stand up for what is right, no matter what.

and we are going to win.

[Ewhaz]

focus isn't about ignoring something, its more about being focused on the potential outcome of something.

people who are afraid of getting well, as you said, they are focused on the fear of getting well, not on the getting well.

if your focused on your fear, then the fear overwhelms you and freezes you in place. if you are focused on the best possible outcome, the fear becomes something to work past.

in any situation there are a few things to focus on, the fear, the worry, the problem as an obstacle. you can also focus on the good of the situation, the challenge, the outcome being better, the excitement of life's many challenges.

ignoring the problem solves nothing, that is simply denial. when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade right? otherwise if you ignore them, they sit in the corner and rot, draw gnats and become an even bigger problem.

focus isn't about being not focused on the problem, its about focusing on the good in the problem. being focused on the good in life helps us see things as challenges, not obstacles. fear debilitates us, worry stresses us, negative emotions cloud our thinking and make it harder to move through life's challenges. focus isn't about ignoring something, it is merely a way of looking at life that allows you to make the most of it. no one here is suggesting any one ignore the bad things and only 'focus' on the good situations in life, that would be foolish!:)

love and light
errol

[jpstephens2012]

:o i can not speak to the subject of psychology. i have taken several courses in psychology and frankly, i personally believe it to be a pseudoscience. therefore i would proceed into a path of negativity. i much prefer to approach things from a standpoint of spirituality.

recently, i had a bout with the darkness and became overwhelmed due to my own constant focus upon the negativity of the circumstances in my life. i came here to this forum seeking help from the spiritual community here. i did indeed receive much reenforcement from the many kind souls who frequent this lofty place. although i received much support and understanding from many people here, i also discovered there were many others who were experiencing similar circumstances.

i credit dw with the insight to provide me with exactly what i needed at that particular time. i made the choice to stop focusing on all the negative things going on around me and try to focus on the positive input i received. several things happened immediately after making that decision. i started to feel better and the dark cloud hovering over me began to lift. the next day i picked up the phone and got a job. it turned out i could not perform the job because i needed money to pay for my own gas. it was a contractor position with a courier service. i was able to work 3 days and was out of money. it costs about $35 a day and pays bi-monthly. my calculations indicated i needed about $550 to make it through a full pay period to the next payday. it seemed hopeless but i was not to be deterred. on a hunch, i picked up the phone and made a call to an attorney of mine who was handling a debt repayment plan for me. i had not been able to make any payments since june and they had suspended my account. they had been waiting for my call to determine what to do with the money left in the trust account. it was $550. the check is on it's way.

it's all about the focus. :d

namaste

[elendal]

that is my point, ewhaz - one shouldn't focus on something good in order to ignore something bad. though, people also tend to do just the opposite - to focus on something bad in order to ignore something good, only because they fear the change.

those patients don't actually focus on fear itself. only very few of them do that, when they fall to panic attacks. most focus on their perceived situation, either by going into depression ("poor me, no one can help me..."), or manic condition ("i'm not ill, i'm feeling great!"). or even manic depression, also known as "emotional rollercoaster", when they often switch between the two.

ok, there's really nothing more to be said about this. i think this is a good time to quietly step away. :)

[AmelieJolie]

that is my point, ewhaz - one shouldn't focus on something good in order to ignore something bad. though, people also tend to do just the opposite - to focus on something bad in order to ignore something good, only because they fear the change.


i absolutely agree.

[charles obscure]

that is my point, ewhaz - one shouldn't focus on something good in order to ignore something bad. though, people also tend to do just the opposite - to focus on something bad in order to ignore something good, only because they fear the change.

those patients don't actually focus on fear itself. only very few of them do that, when they fall to panic attacks. most focus on their perceived situation, either by going into depression ("poor me, no one can help me..."), or manic condition ("i'm not ill, i'm feeling great!"). or even manic depression, also known as "emotional rollercoaster", when they often switch between the two.

ok, there's really nothing more to be said about this. i think this is a good time to quietly step away. :)

very true...on a semi-related note, ive always found the law of attraction and 'the secret' stuff to basically be very misunderstood and misused concepts. to find what one is seeking, does not necessarily come from focus as much as from pure intent, and from polarizing on the path of service to others or service to self. it comes from advancing spiritually.

one has to have a backround 'awareness', to understand this though. for those who havent yet come to this understanding, such words will be meaningless. thus they are easily sold on such get rich quick schemes as 'the secret'.

[Del]

that is my point, ewhaz - one shouldn't focus on something good in order to ignore something bad.

that is right. i believe one should acknowledge that the bad thoughts are there but just not let them selves continue in that line of thinking, let the thought go but move on to other thoughts. instead of blocking it all out completely by for example, focusing on only good thoughts.

[jpstephens2012]

first of all let me say this, 'the secret' has practically nothing to do with the law of attraction, and they should [not] be associated together. originally ester, jerry, and abraham were a part of the movie, but because of legal issues they voluntarily removed themselves from the film. they are not really associated with it either, except that channeled information about it and try to bring greater understanding of it. although i don't recommend 'the secret' i do highly recommend the materials offered by ester and jerry on their website. just do a quick search on abraham if you're interested.

the law of attraction is a universal law that is quoted in much esoteric channeled material from a multitude of sources including ra. the main premise of the law of attraction is "that, that is like unto itself is drawn." this law is in action throughout all of creation, not just our thoughts and deeds. abraham didn't invent the law of attraction, god did. he's just trying to teach it to us in all it's varied manifestations, and how to work with it.

one of the areas where it is evident is thought. thought is focus. where ever your focus(thought) is placed, you will draw more of that thought to you as you explore it's various permutations. the more you continue to focus on it, the more you think about it. if your focus is on something negative such as conspiracy for instance, you will start to discover that the depth of the conspiracies around us is almost incredulous! you will eventually discover that there nothing in your life that is not touched and/or controlled by it. it is almost a living entity of it's own, indeed it is controlled by one, but we can get into that at another time. after a while, if you are a seeker of truth, it can become quite overwhelming.

the point here is that you can change your focus. if you are against war then become pro peace. if you are against government corruption then become pro honesty and accountability in government. if you are against fossil fuels then become pro alternative energy sources. if you are against the destruction of the rainforest's then become pro rainforest conservation, etc.

every negative has an equal and opposite positive. work for the positive and let the negative be. the negative is self defeating and will fall of it's own accord. it's happening more and more every day as the light is continually streaming in to greater and greater degree.

at first i was put off by the film 'the secret' because it was very materialistically oriented and it bothered me so much that i asked dw what he thought about it. he declined to comment on it for several reasons, i'm sure one of which was not to violate my free will. i researched the hicks/abraham material much further and found it to be extremely helpful in understanding myself and my life and everything around me.

i hope this information is of service to you.:)