Karma

[AmelieJolie]

hmm.

i took a look at some of the ra material again today. ra doesn't say much about karma, or explain how experience in a body helps us "evolve".

could it be that we don't need to evolve?
could it be that we are already a part of infinite consciousness, only we have forgotten who we truly are?
and the more we stay here, the more we forget.....becoming deeper and deeper enmeshed in this material world full of its rules and limitations which are all false....and not a part of infinite consciousness.

as far as karma goes
i feel quite strongly that while karma does play a part in this reality, we are not totally responsible for everything that happens to us. people get sick, unfortunate things happen- and it's not all about karma but just a part of the learning process.
i doubt very much that we are really in control. the only thing we can control is how we react to any given situation. that's all.


please feel free to share your thoughts & knowledge. ;)


love.

[MarkM]

some great, intuitive flows, ameliejolie!

i recall reading the edgar cayce material years ago and trying to get my head around the concepts of karma, and whether there are such things as accidents.

i wondered at one time how a loving kind 'god' could allow such monstrous things to occur in the world.

but then i figured that the only way to maintain our free will as co-creators ( which is what we are), is for us to be allowed to do what we will in the world, or in any world, for that matter.

for me, this led into a greater insight into the nature and purpose of karma, as it seems natural to assume that a creator must face and experience its creation, as with power comes responsibility. although karma may seem at first to be a mechanism of punishment/reward, it seems better understood as a way for an evolving creator to learn/teach from its own creation.

although we have been one with the creator always, it seems as if we (the creator) is experimenting with the concept of 'manyness', perhaps with an eye towards gaining experience in a veiled state of self-induced amnesia, as an antidote to a static state of intelligent infinity, full of infinite potential, but otherwise without the means to realize.

in order for the creator to fulfill the law of creators facing and experiencing fully their creation (karma), you wind up with a situation such as we have here in third density; namely, a great forum of creating, experiencing, learning, creating some more, experiencing, learning, growing, etc., until we learn to move and create in line with the formative, creative principle of the universe, which is love.

all the drama of life in third density is merely the result of us little baby creators learning to use the creative principles properly through trial and error.

the veil's purpose is, in part, to shield us from the higher karmic responsibilities of our mis-steps, as well as to allow us to learn the ways of love naturally and fully, through our own innocent first hand experience.

when we become trustworthy creators, working more than less consistently in harmony and in accordance with the universal creative principles in this smaller-scale forum of practising with our creative powers, we get to move on to something bigger.

and thus does the creator feel for itself the wonders of experience and becoming.

love, mark

[johnasmodeus]

i like to think of existing in a body as something akin to swim training. in high school, sometimes the swim team would practice in the pool wearing sweatclothes.

as long as you're a strong enough swimmer not to drown outright, you'll become much stronger and much faster by practicing with these hindrances, because as soon as they come off and you're allowed to swim in your regular swimwear again, it's much easier.

and this relates to the question of needing/not needing to evolve: you really don't need to. just like the swimmers don't need to become better, stronger, or faster. but where's the fun in that?

[MarkM]

some great, intuitive flows, ameliejolie!

i recall reading the edgar cayce material years ago and trying to get my head around the concepts of karma, and whether there are such things as accidents.

i wondered at one time how a loving kind 'god' could allow such monstrous things to occur in the world.

but then i figured that the only way to maintain our free will as co-creators ( which is what we are), is for us to be allowed to do what we will in the world, or in any world, for that matter.

for me, this led into a greater insight into the nature and purpose of karma, as it seems natural to assume that a creator must face and experience its creation, as with power comes responsibility. although karma may seem at first to be a mechanism of punishment/reward, it seems better understood as a way for an evolving creator to learn/teach from its own creation.

although we have been one with the creator always, it seems as if we (the creator) is experimenting with the concept of 'manyness', perhaps with an eye towards gaining experience in a veiled state of self-induced amnesia, as an antidote to a static state of intelligent infinity, full of infinite potential, but otherwise without the means to realize.

in order for the creator to fulfill the law of creators facing and experiencing fully their creation (karma), you wind up with a situation such as we have here in third density; namely, a great forum of creating, experiencing, learning, creating some more, experiencing, learning, growing, etc., until we learn to move and create in line with the formative, creative principle of the universe, which is love.

all the drama of life in third density is merely the result of us little baby creators learning to use the creative principles properly through trial and error.

the veil's purpose is, in part, to shield us from the higher karmic responsibilities of our mis-steps, as well as to allow us to learn the ways of love naturally and fully, through our own innocent first hand experience.

when we become trustworthy creators, working more than less consistently in harmony and in accordance with the universal creative principles in this smaller-scale forum of practising with our creative powers, we get to move on to something bigger.

and thus does the creator feel for itself the wonders of experience and becoming.

love, mark

in oher words, everything is going according to plan, it is the way it's supposed to be!

[AmelieJolie]

some very insightful thoughts, markm!


the veil's purpose is, in part, to shield us from the higher karmic responsibilities of our mis-steps.

interesting point.
it's difficult to imagine- what things were like before.

the question is, what is the veil, exactly? what did it mean exactly when we were "connected"? what was it like?
was it not possible to feel empathy toward all life, and therefore compassion?

or is it only possible for us to learn true compassion through pain?


hmmmm. ;)

going to go and think about this some more!

love & light.

[billybobbutterball]

some very insightful thoughts, markm!

.

interesting point.
it's difficult to imagine- what things were like before.

the question is, what is the veil, exactly? what did it mean exactly when we were "connected"? what was it like?
was it not possible to feel empathy toward all life, and therefore compassion?

or is it only possible for us to learn true compassion through pain?


hmmmm. ;)




going to go and think about this some more!

love & light.

hi, aj

boy, you sure do open up cans of worms -- then stir them up a bunch!

okay. first one point...we can't stay put -- there's a long way to go yet. for sure by the fifth, sixth density on up we will be forming social memory complexes ala latwii and ra. we will be in time space rather than 3d space time -- and everything will be brain-twistingly different. our intellectual abilities -- so handy on earth in handling practical problems -- will have diminished importance. (an aside here is that certain ascertaintments concerning earthly happenings come more easily to us than to higher entities such as the ra....for instance, according to the ra, our time scale is difficult for them to zero in on. transient affairs are more easily comprehended by etheric inner-planes entities who still operate in 3-d but in the astral ) (i hope i have that essentially right!)

one of the first things that hit me in reading the ra study guide was the information concerning the veil. according to the ra earlier planets in other systems were set up as virtual gardens of eden with everyone essentially aware of the law of one reality. but there was a big problem... all the incarnates were plumb lazy and not inclined to strive one bit...naturally the shortfall of so-so minimal spiritual growth plus a measly accumultion of experiential data were disapointing. it was a case of "no pain no gain", or "nothing ventured, etc., etc." the sub logi given charge in running the show were embarrassed and bummed out. after all the graduates of all this were supposed to eventually offer their experiences to the one creator some odd number of millions of earth years down the line. (of course there is really no such thing as time )

so, out of that came the earth model...employing the law of confusion. finally! real spiritual growth came from doing it the hard way. memories of past lives would interfer with the employment of the so-called law of the freedom of the will.

as i like to put it, we were all like babies parachuted naked into the amazonian rain forest!

this law of confusion --veil of forgetfulness -- became the pattern used across the galaxy (ies?) of course in the case of our earth they got a little over-ambitious by deciding to really turn the flame up under the pot, so our logi and minions chili peppered the stock by dumping in rag-tag elements from various disabled host planets -- planets that didn't survive their destructive tenants explosive natures.

so we have a host of differing humanoid types all struggling to put up with each other...and on top of that --something of a first -- a bunch of essentially over-striving negative polarity undergraduates got dumped in with the positives. the belated observation concering the earth experiment is that the overloaded and over-spiced pot unexpectedly boiled over somewhat

i should add here that there are differing versions on just exactily what we sub sub sub logi are and just exactly how we came about to be in this sticky wicket. one idea is that we started as sparks from zero (1d) and worked our way up through the ranks to 3d. i sorta like that idea.

other theories are that we, as naive spiritual essences, went playing in the physical cosmos sand box only to find it a tar pit and couldn't escape without help.

another version is that we got lured into the sand box by a glorious looking but deceptive spirit who encourged us to develop our sense of individuation... cultivating an ego that swallowed up our real selves by taking over our identity ... this beautiful evil guy convinced us that if our ego was extinquished we then would then cease to exist. that was supposedly the first lie.

i don't much like that last version since it doesn't mix well with the idea that we are on a glorious exploration mission through being the finite eyes and ears of the one creator -- an infinite creator who desires to know all posible aspects of itself -- even to the tiniest negative/positive tidbit potential hiding away in some crack of the finite cosmos manifestation.

good grief! its 3:30 am! i'm sleepwriting! :rolleyes:

ps i think it was your site that i took a gander at -- lots of beautiful, lush green? really neat/striking!

best, etc., billybobblotto-ed

[AmelieJolie]

thanks, billybobbutterball.

i was aware of those things, however....i watched the video interviews with my full attention.....i read some of the ra material about the veil......

but somehow, when i read that, my feelings just sank.

it just sounds as if we are being manipulated......it feels as if we're all part of some grand experiment for the purpose of other being's amusement......perhaps we are those beings too, in another incarnation.....

it's easy to turn our eyes away from the suffering in the world and put it all down to a "higher purpose" or karma.

until we are in that boat ourselves.

i know someone, very intuitive, who became physically disabled and suffers daily, who strongly feels (she is very intuitive).....that her illness is not down to karma- it simply is.

[Ewhaz]

karma is not the end all of every experience.

i remember reading somewhere that sometimes sickness is not (especially life changing sickness) is sometimes a path that is chosen so that we become fortified in the fire.

there is a story in the bible where by the disciples asked jesus about a blind man, weather he was blind from birth because he had done something wrong, or his parents had 'sinned'. jesus replies that neither had happened, but rather that it was so that through his blindness god could be glorified. ( we are all god so any great catalyst that effectively refines our character is added to gods overall experience.)

karma is a tool to teach us. in the greater skeem of things, what does karma have to do with anything? we are all god, all part of god, part of all that is, there is no separation. there is only the distortion. so in the end, if god uses or hurts himself, the net effect change is zero. say god split himself in two. they are both god.. one would profit while the other lost. they are both one god and therefore the net effect would be zero. there is no real right and wrong when every thing is part of one god.

in the ra material, they state simply that this realm of 3d is polarized towards what? service to others! how would that be enforced? how could you make it so that the system was more oriented towards service to others than it was service to self? karma. with kama, if you hurt or use some one else, you get bad karma. if you help or serve some one else you get good karma. in the most basic sense of the term, its a pavlovian system to create a leaning towards service to others.

i don't think it would be wrong to think that perhaps in some other sector of the universe, service to self would be polarized with a system of karma that was essentially backwards. service to self is still service to god, the ra material was pretty clear on that.

i don't think karma is a hard concept to understand really, its all cause an effect. though seeing it for what it is can be difficult. we've chosen our lives situations either through karma (cause and effect, through our actions) or through god (as experiences with great catalysts for change). either way it is gods perfect plan.

[billybobbutterball]

thanks, billybobbutterball.

i was aware of those things, however....i watched the video interviews with my full attention.....i read some of the ra material about the veil......

but somehow, when i read that, my feelings just sank.

it just sounds as if we are being manipulated......it feels as if we're all part of some grand experiment for the purpose of other being's amusement......perhaps we are those beings too, in another incarnation.....

it's easy to turn our eyes away from the suffering in the world and put it all down to a "higher purpose" or karma.

until we are in that boat ourselves.

i know someone, very intuitive, who became physically disabled and suffers daily, who strongly feels (she is very intuitive).....that her illness is not down to karma- it simply is.

hi,

yes, we are a grand experiment. merely the amusement of others? others? how can that be? after all, all is one! we are that part of the one creator exploring itself... not puppet toys. but, yes, i know where you are coming from. it takes a lot of time and mental reconfiguration.

i agree that all that happens is not planned catalyst or karmic re-balancing. the thing is that with freewill our experiences will be punctuated by surprises -- genuine surprises to all. because it is a real surprise does not mean it is a useless event. to paraphrase the bible, all things will be used for the good, including pain. (yeah, when i'm hurtin' a lot that concept ain't all that comforting for the moment!)

how things play out.

i have a dear brother-in-law recently hospitalized for serious dementia complications...he rattles on like he is in a dream world. he is not going to get better. i feel that he should just move on. however, there were some comments in the past from our higher dimension friends concerning such situations. first of all, surprisingly, the seemingly comatose entity can benefit by the mental shutdown in that it is still enabled to review its life from a particular etheric advantage point and can accomplish much needed work. second, the complication in the life of others provides a needed catalyst via their experiencing this painful event and their attempt to cope with it. (come to think about it, my dear sister did evade some responsibilities in the long ago past so conceivably this could be her alternate plan option # 9b now swinging into action.)

concerning entity entanglements ... the man mentioned above had run off with my girl friend -- some fifty years ago -- shortly after he saw her playing beautiful bridesmaid at my sister's wedding. fast-forwarding to five years ago to my brother's memorial service -- this girl-stealer and my sister -- both single again -- get together and compare notes. yeah, this time he steals my sister! they end up getting married! :rolleyes: at their wedding reception i was surprised to find out, via his handsome son, (sporting a familiar and charming smile obviously inherited in part from his late mother ) that everyone in the family was well acquainted with my "tennesee waltz" story. (i was waltzing with my darling when an old friend stole my sweetheart from me)

hey, e.j., maybe you are right...i think someone up there is smiling!:) anyway, i really hope so!

billybob:cool:

[AmelieJolie]

jesus replies that neither had happened, but rather that it was so that through his blindness god could be glorified. ( we are all god so any great catalyst that effectively refines our character is added to gods overall experience.)

excellent point.

this would suggest that although karma is part of the law that helps us learn, it is not the reason for all suffering, therefore it is our responsibility to transmute suffering through compassion and we should also strive not to judge.

"love has the power to overcome all odds. it can even eliminate karma".

[AmelieJolie]

the belief in karma is just an illusion of the matrix to keep us locked in. as we think, so we are- and we create self-made prisons by what we believe. we create realms of illusion (in the afterlife, etc) by what we believe. the answers are within.

love has the power to overcome all odds. it can even eliminate "karma".

and the truth shall set you free.

[twva]

i know someone, very intuitive, who became physically disabled and suffers daily, who strongly feels (she is very intuitive).....that her illness is not down to karma- it simply is.

ra mentions that many souls plan their lives and often give themselves great catalyst. your friend's disability may well be something she planned before this incarnation, not necessarily for karmic reasons but maybe for the purpose of mastering a difficult lesson like patience, long-sufferingness, etc.

[AmelieJolie]

ra mentions that many souls plan their lives and often give themselves great catalyst. your friend's disability may well be something she planned before this incarnation, not necessarily for karmic reasons but maybe for the purpose of mastering a difficult lesson like patience, long-sufferingness, etc.

exactly. therefore we shouldn't allow ourselves to get trapped in the illusion of karma. which in fact, people who are caught in these beliefs, have treated her very unkindly...so-called spiritual people too.

[Firewalker]

exactly. therefore we shouldn't allow ourselves to get trapped in the illusion of karma. which in fact, people who are caught in these beliefs, have treated her very unkindly...so-called spiritual people too.

that's terrible, and stupid.

ra said in the law of one that when an entity forgives all others and self, that the 'momentum' of karma is suddenly stopped. so it may be like the universe reflecting us. reflecting our 'grudge holding'.

i read in michael talbot's 'the holographic universe' how some reasearchers have found nearly no existence, through studying reincarnative lifetimes, of retributive karma. the person tends to reincarnate into similar circumstances they left off.

i have felt guided slightly by dreamstate referring to karma. dogs are a metaphor for karma in my dreams. it's seems to me like there's a rebound effect. if you resist affection in some cases you get karma, like an elastic band pulling you back quickly to look at something before you move on. and some karma can be 'disciplined.'

[AmelieJolie]

it's all about learning.......

it's all about learning

[AmelieJolie]

words and music by brian may


theres no time for us
theres no place for us
what is this thing that builds our dreams yet slips away
from us

who wants to live forever
who wants to live forever....?

theres no chance for us
its all decided for us
this world has only one sweet moment set aside for us

who wants to live forever
who wants to live forever?

who dares to love forever?
when love must die

but touch my tears with your lips
touch my world with your fingertips
and we can have forever
and we can love forever
forever is our today
who wants to live forever
who wants to live forever?
forever is our today

who waits forever anyway?

[SuperManny]

the belief in karma is just an illusion of the matrix to keep us locked in. as we think, so we are- and we create self-made prisons by what we believe. we create realms of illusion (in the afterlife, etc) by what we believe. the answers are within.


karma is not entirely an illusion. it is as real as anything else the entity creates for itself. ra compares karma to inertia, and once set in motion, is not always so easily stopped. but when we cease those actions that would create more karma, and forgive completely the karma may be dissolved.
...both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. this is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. this also brakes or stops what you call karma.

[jpstephens2012]

i'm not going to bother with quoting here because i still don't quite understand how it works. the law of karma is really just another facet of the law of attraction. it often appears to be retributive but that simply is not the case. edgar cayce spoke much on the "law of karma"
but you have to understand that material that came through him of a spiritual nature was highly distorted due to his strict christian upbringing. while at the time (1930-1940's) the information was pretty radical, we have advanced quite a ways spiritually since that time.

the infinite creator did not set up a system by which we would be punished if we disobeyed his will. christianity and every other religion in the world contains this kind of distortion due to the mind of man and his illusionary need to control others.

all paths are sacred, both positive and negative. all are aspects of god. what we do have is the law of attraction, a fundamental law across all of creation. we do create every single thing that comes into our lives. no one else can create in your experience, unless somehow they have been invited, or you fail to deliberately create your own experience. you can experience things created by others by living by default. in such cases you come more under the control of planetary influences (astrology) and anything can come into your experience and will. this happens because you have failed to use your own free will, so once again, you created it by law of attraction.

karma really is what you have created, and the concept is a construction of man used to pass judgment on others. we all mis-create at various times in our lives. if it were not so we would never learn anything and spiritual growth would stagnate. what we need to do is forgive ourselves and forgive others. this way we invoke the "law of grace" which effectively cancels the "law of karma".

this is my understanding as of this moment in time. if it helps you then i have successfully been of service to others. if it doesn't then please feel free to leave it behind.

namaste

[AmelieJolie]

karma is not entirely an illusion. it is as real as anything else the entity creates for itself. ra compares karma to inertia, and once set in motion, is not always so easily stopped. but when we cease those actions that would create more karma, and forgive completely the karma may be dissolved.


originally posted by ra - session 34
...both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. this is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. this also brakes or stops what you call karma.

wow, supermanny, thank you for finding this! i'm beginning to like this "ra" entity more!

[Nina]

hi everyone,
was thinking about what bill wrote about how we came to be in this "sticky wicket"! been drawn to study rudolf steiner(what i can grasp). this link has the most marvelous "story" shared by robert disasti who made steiner's more complex material, more easily understandable. "law of one" students... this has overwelmed me with its beauty, with much found highly important about our "learning and the challenges at hand" (divine sophia, lucifer, etc)!
there are many articles that can be viewed from index, but the one i found such a great read is about christian rosenkreutz (given as a later incarnation of the soul who had been lazarus, according to steiner):

http://www.angelfire.com/journal/sunlogo/index.html

much is shared about the perception of the etheric christ. recall ra material statements about jesus. wish that more particular questions had been asked about the christ "being" as one differentiated from the jesus soul. nina

[johnasmodeus]

exactly. therefore we shouldn't allow ourselves to get trapped in the illusion of karma. which in fact, people who are caught in these beliefs, have treated her very unkindly...so-called spiritual people too.

it sounds as if these people you speak of simply misunderstood the concept. i know someone like this. she's into all this stuff too. she's a nice enough person, but after being with her for more than a few hours, you begin to notice that she leans on this sort of material like a crutch.

she will speak very enthusiastically about auras, christ consciousness, etc. and go on and on, but it's mostly just her talking and not listening. she jumps from like topic to like topic without entering into any in any sort of depth. also, when you get off the subject and enjoy more "transitory" conversation, she will try to steer it back, leaving you to wonder if she has anything else to talk about at all. she has grabbed on to what has been referred to as the "airy fairy" concept of "new age" and identified with it as something of a mask to hide her own insecurities, with the result being a kind of ideological addiction.

so she represents herself outwardly as spiritual, but inwardly you do get the impression that it's something of a front to hide experiences and emotions that she's not ready to share with the outside world yet.

now back to the idea of karma: there is a very common misperception that karma means some sort of punishment. i've even heard one lady on tv explain her disbelief in the concept with the following reasoning: "karma means that if a woman is raped it's her fault."

now if i were to meet this person i would probably have to say that she was letting her excessive sympathy for rape victims - and such tyrannical sympathy usually comes from being a victim oneself; and this person should take care how much of her private history she lets onto in public - cloud their discrimination.

karma states that the raped and the rapist are the same - separated perhaps by a few lives or a thousand years, but the same nonetheless. just as the murderer and the murdered are the same, just as the bully and the bullied are also the same.

it is our sympathy for the victim and our hatred for the purveyor that leads us to accept one and reject the other, and deny that the two could ever possibly be similar, never mind one and the same. (and though well-intentioned, this ends up being a step down the separation path, believe it or not) and thus we reject karma as nonsense, or worse.

thus it is ignorant to judge or hate somebody because he or she may be suffering the effects of karma. however, if this is true, then it is just as ignorant to judge or hate somebody who is committing or has committed some vile act and has not yet experienced the karmic effect of their own actions. sympathy and compassion are the most appropriate responses, both for whatever suffering they will surely have to experience in the future as well as for whatever suffering or ignorant conditions they experienced in the past that led them to commit their crime.

thus, if these people but understood the concept, they would not have treated your friend unkindly, even if all of you were certain that her condition was the result of some horrible misdeed in the past.

[soup]

it seems as if there are intense periods of living where we are brought to circumstances of choice with corresponding temptation to act impulsively. when a person can exercise self discipline in a way that defers the impulsive acts, say by displacing less than benign thought forms with mantras or affirmations, then these acts can soften such burdens so to speak. the development of some spiritual discipline can help to prepare a person so that when these opportune times occur, they can better help themselves to act in the interest of the greater good, (difficult to describe.)


soup

[soup]

the relationship between the concepts of karma and relationship and control remind me of the sacrifice people make in parenting.

society seems built upon the concept of family - but it seems one of many ways of being. possibly there's societal structures which transcend the delineations of family - where the society is a family as whole and people share to such extents that the notions of lack and need to work in conventional ways dissolves. in this case, the act of hording money would be traded off for so much catalyst in the daily grinds that people occupy themselves. this relates to the ideas of progress and how physical progress may trade off for spiritual progress in some way or another.


soup

[ETguy]

i made a poll not too long ago here which indicated a large presence of wanderers on this forum, which is very relevant to this discussion.
first let me just share some background history which has led me to think about karma right now.

as i understand it, wanderers are at this earth at this time in groups. soul groups. i'm pretty sure that i have identified those who are the wanderers of my soul group. they are the ones i have remained "glued" to, despite the passing of time, disagreements and so forth. the people i meet in my life that i just seem "glued" to without any possibility of untangling - these are the fellow wanderers in my soul group.

before i "awakened" to my origin as a wanderer, i was far from a perfect human being when it came to personal relations.

i strongly believe that i have generated negative karma to another member of my soul group. remember, this was before i awakened to my wanderer status. i was pretty detached from all aspects of my life, the outside world as well as my inside world. basically, i had detached myself as a protective mechanism in order to cope.

this detachment made me misbehave in interpersonal relationships. what happened was that a wanderer from my soul group formed a close attachment to me. i ignored her. she, as wanderers often do, struggled with life on earth. she reached out her hand to me for help. i rejected her. i was an ass.

now, i'm not perfect. wanderers often have this grandiose idea of themselves as masters of the universe and so forth. but i'll say it: i'm flawed in a lot of aspects, and i was definitely flawed before i "awakened". i was in "shock", as well as damaged from the earth atmosphere, i was not myself. this is very important, i was not acting like myself. my true essence would never make such glaring mistakes.

to get to the point: the scenario as it is right now is an exact match as to how the scenario looked like all those years ago when i was being an ass - when i hurt her - with one critical difference: the tables have turned. i am harvesting the fruits of my karma. i'm the one feeling the rejection. i feel just as she did. i now realize how i hurt her all that time ago, because i feel just what she did.

however, as i understand it, karma must be balanced. however convenient it would be to say "ok, etguy, you were obviously in a strange configuration at that time, which made you unable to realize how your actions affected others", it can't be done. the universe requires that what is given is received. it is by the law of the universe that she acts in the same manner to me as i did to her.

in fact, i wonder if wanderer soul groups "suffer" from this accelerated karma payment to a much greater degree than native earthlings. native earthlings have spent their entire history of incarnations on earth and is probably not going to make it to 4d+ earth. to them, it's not that important if karma is repaid right away. they can just continue working on balancing karma on the third density planet they go to post-harvest. however, wanderers are supposed to return home when this harvest event occurs 2011-2013. here's the important point: if there is any residue karma left from the mistakes wanderers have done under the third density veil, then it's probably going to have to be repaid under similar third density conditions.

this then means that wanderers will have to return to another third density planet in order to repay that karma. therefore, it is very important that any karma that has been generated is repaid before the harvest. because, if you're harvested with negative karma, you not only mess things up for yourself, you also mess things up for the recipient of that karma - you'll both have to incarnate on a third density planet so that the karma can be properly repaid under the correct atmosphere.

this makes me believe that the "soul group leaders", or whoever is in a position of responsibility outside of this third density physical existence, actively work on eradicating the karma that is generated by the group members towards each other. the goal is then to reach the harvest with no karma, so that all members of the group can return home right away.


law of one, 12.28
questioner: are most of these from the fourth density? or what density do they come from?

ra: i am ra. few there are of fourth density. the largest number of wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. the desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. the challenge/danger of the wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.


i've been wondering why she would hurt me like this when she knows the connection i now feel for her. but now, i realize, karma is being balanced! she can't help acting the way she does, she has been subconsciously programmed to repay karma. this probably sounds a bit wild, but once you think about it, it actually makes sense. i just hope that this realization doesn't mess up the karma repayment. i'm too smart for my own good. the thought of returning to another third density prison colony makes me shudder.

so, i now pass the ball to you, fellow wanderers. am i insane?
have you experienced this accelerated karma balancing as a result of your own actions?
generally, what do you think about the idea i have presented here?

[ETguy]

hmmm....i see that my post there isn't triggering a great deal of debate. i intended it as a thread but it got transferred as a post to this thread.

the gist of my previous post is basically whether karma can be repaid in a more hurried fashion. the general idea of karma is that you'll hand someone an apple in this life, and then get that same apple back in another life. this would then be a pretty slow process since you'd have to reincarnate in another lifetime in order to complete the cycle.

i can't see any logical reasoning for why this pay/repay process shouldn't able to function within a short period of time? what do you think? let's start an interesting discussion here! :)

[truth37421]

yes...sometimes i have found that you can get instant karma. i think david talks about that too in one of his blogs about someone stealing something and then gets into a car accident over it. sometimes i have found as well that if i did something i shouldn't have, i very shortly had something happen to me to remind me that what i did wasn't right. and i did recognize that was telling me that i shouldn't do whatever i had done.
as far as receiving good karma...i'm not sure, but then again i have a good life that is happy for the most part, so perhaps the good that i do is coming back to me in that fashion.
so overall, yes, i don't think that you need to wait lifetimes for your karma to happen, it happens all the time in the here and now too.

[ETguy]

yes...sometimes i have found that you can get instant karma. i think david talks about that too in one of his blogs about someone stealing something and then gets into a car accident over it. sometimes i have found as well that if i did something i shouldn't have, i very shortly had something happen to me to remind me that what i did wasn't right. and i did recognize that was telling me that i shouldn't do whatever i had done.
as far as receiving good karma...i'm not sure, but then again i have a good life that is happy for the most part, so perhaps the good that i do is coming back to me in that fashion.
so overall, yes, i don't think that you need to wait lifetimes for your karma to happen, it happens all the time in the here and now too.
it seems like i'm being handed some pretty bad karma right now in my life. but it makes me feel better when i can think that not only does it serve a greater purpose, i'm responsible for bringing the karma upon myself as well. it's very easy to start thinking that you're a victim otherwise.
it has happened many times before in my life as well - this "table turning" effect. never to this degree though. but when i think about it, what i'm receiving right now is completely proportionate to what i sent out. it makes perfect sense to me.

my life circumstances even changed rapidly in order for this karma to be repaid under the correct circumstances. what i mean by this is that, our life circumstances have been swapped! i'm now in the same life situation that she was in, and she is now suddenly in the life situation that i was in. it has happened suddenly. not only that, but she has now suddenly started acting to me like i acted to her, without any warning. everything fits. i really do believe that someone is actively working on balancing out karma, especially in this case.

anyway, this is probably the most significant karmic involvement that i have created for myself during this incarnation. other than that, i've been pretty neutral. i'm still interested in hearing some more opinions and experiences about this.

"the challenge/danger of the wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction."

[truth37421]

do you have a relationship where you can have a heart to heart talk with this person and tell her what is on your mind? would she understand you and not think you are completely crazy for saying it? i do understand where you are coming from here..... and it helps if you can talk to the other person involved and see if the two of you can stop the craziness so to speak.
i recently met a person who hit me like a ton of bricks, just insanely affected me, where i felt like, omg i don't know where this person has been all of my life but i can't bear to let them go, and i had to come to terms with it...all in the meantime when i was feeling like this, these strong strong feelings...i knew rationally that i had just met this person and i couldn't overwhelm them like that and tell them everything that was on my mind... it was a very difficult situation for me, it was different because it wasn't like a romantic thing, but it is definitely a love for them that was just there instantly.... i felt like it was a definite karmic thing, a catalyst, and not necessarily a good thing because it upset my whole apple cart, my way of thinking.... but as time went on, and i got to know that person a bit better in the here and now, it works out that this person is a fairly awakened soul herself and i was able to tell her some of what was going on and she accepted it...and i now believe that no matter where she goes or where i go, we will always have an unbroken connection and we will be able to pick up again where we left off without feeling like any time has passed. i don't normally "lose my mind" like i did with her, it feels strange to me, because i have only really known her here for 2 months....actually with all of my friends here, she was the missing piece because we all thought she was wonderful, and we don't normally do like that as a whole.

anyway, my point was that if you can talk to this person, you may be able to achieve some kind of resolution to your struggle and she may be able to forgive you. but you will have to ask this person to forgive you...i feel for you, its very very hard....

[ETguy]

do you have a relationship where you can have a heart to heart talk with this person and tell her what is on your mind?
[...]
anyway, my point was that if you can talk to this person, you may be able to achieve some kind of resolution to your struggle and she may be able to forgive you. but you will have to ask this person to forgive you...i feel for you, its very very hard....
we did have some form of special connection. we've known each other for many years. (maybe even millions of years! :d) problem is, she tried having lots of these heart to heart talks with me all those years ago. but at that time, i was the one who was not listening at all. (i behaved in a way which was significant enough to create large amounts of negative karma.)

i've really tried to prevent us from drifting apart, but i've given that up now that i realize that it must be karma. i know that it sounds a bit strange to just blame it all on karma, but the degree to how the entire relationship has just flipped completely 180 degrees is amazing. it all just seems so orchestrated. it's like some higher force is driving us apart to teach me a lesson.



i recently met a person who hit me like a ton of bricks, just insanely affected me, where i felt like, omg i don't know where this person has been all of my life but i can't bear to let them go, and i had to come to terms with it...all in the meantime when i was feeling like this, these strong strong feelings...i knew rationally that i had just met this person and i couldn't overwhelm them like that and tell them everything that was on my mind... it was a very difficult situation for me, it was different because it wasn't like a romantic thing, but it is definitely a love for them that was just there instantly.... i felt like it was a definite karmic thing, a catalyst, and not necessarily a good thing because it upset my whole apple cart, my way of thinking.... but as time went on, and i got to know that person a bit better in the here and now, it works out that this person is a fairly awakened soul herself and i was able to tell her some of what was going on and she accepted it...and i now believe that no matter where she goes or where i go, we will always have an unbroken connection and we will be able to pick up again where we left off without feeling like any time has passed. i don't normally "lose my mind" like i did with her, it feels strange to me, because i have only really known her here for 2 months....actually with all of my friends here, she was the missing piece because we all thought she was wonderful, and we don't normally do like that as a whole.
it sounds like this was someone from your soul group. when you meet someone from your soul group for the first time you tend to see them and think "hmm, have i seen you before?". there's this familiarity that is unexplainable.

[Firewalker]

et guy, i can understand your perspective if you have been through such a thing, and you may even be right.

but, that does not agree with my own experience. (limited though it is, i consider myself as perhaps a bit young to give any relationship advice.)

so, i experienced the sort of, start of a relationship, or infatuation with someone once and was treated of in such a way, that lacking in severity, with very little actual involvement with each other, was utterly abhorrent.

at the time it was an infatuation as such that seemed to take up everything, went on for years, and i have little doubt it consumed just as much of her life as it did of mine, i'm not talking about something one way.

i'm being cryptic and the situation was (i typo'd 'is', eek) bizarre, and went on for years. but, my point is, do i have to find someone to treat in exactly the same way to balance my karma? no i don't. because, i just wouldn't do that.

you move into spiritual living by practicing the principles and walking your life path, not by damaging other people to alleviate there's.

it was on of edgar cayce's past lives that gave food to a starving child at the expense of his own life, (not sure if that's completely correct but that's the gist of it.) he then got rid of two lifetimes of bad karma. it was the cayce readings that also said that energy therapies can get rid of karma.

also, at the time, i, being naive and having read the edgar cayce book recently, also partly in an unhealthy place, thought this girl to be my soul mate. this was through very strong feeling. i get a dream later with spirits (or some group) surrounding me saying 'she's not the one'. alas that does seem a bit odd as i write that now (however i believe it not to be a reference to a less than loo perspective of a person). which is why, after having such a strong belief in that and having been told directly it was not true, i have been very suspect of the subject of soul mates, from anyone who speaks about the subject blathly. i figure it's easy to believe a lot in that area and not be practically correct.

[ETguy]

i'm being cryptic and the situation was (i typo'd 'is', eek) bizarre, and went on for years. but, my point is, do i have to find someone to treat in exactly the same way to balance my karma? no i don't. because, i just wouldn't do that.

well, in my opinion there are two forms of actions:
1) actions that you do to others from your own free will.
2) actions that you do to others in order to repay karma.

the general method of karmic balancing in third density is by changing roles between lives. so if i whack you over the head with a pillow in this life, then you'll whack me over the head with a pillow in another life. this will then balance the karma.

but, since we're in a very important time period for humanity right now, approaching 2012, i can imagine that a lot of exceptions are made to the standard procedure. karmic repayment is accelerated - in other words, repaid as quickly as possible, so that the scale can balanced as much as possible before 2012.

also, as i said in my original post, i believe that this form of karmic repayment should affect wanderer soul groups even more intensely. a clean karmic sheet is extremely important for the wanderer soul group, as left-over karma from third density entanglements could mean that members of the soul group have to remain in a third density environment in order to balance it properly. the law of one material confirms this as well.

so anyway, to answer your question: you will probably treat this person in a reciprocal manner in another life, because it sounds like there's a lot of karma generated between you and this person that will need to be balanced out.

i really do believe that our lives are much more structured than we can ever be aware of. to us, it seems like a string of more or less random events. but if you look at the underlying meanings, repetitions, and so forth, then you'll be able to catch patterns eventually. rarely the pattern is as glaringly obvious as the one i'm seeing now, but that's probably because of a screamingly urgent need to balance the scale directly before 2012 in order to avoid a karmic entanglement for my soul group.

[ETguy]

just as an addition to my previous post, i'd like to add that i've been having some pretty peculiar synchronicities lately.

i like to play online games. on this particular occasion i was thinking about what i've mentioned in this thread. as i was thinking about this, i joined a random server. to my surprise, i was directed to the karma clan's gaming server! coincidence? who knows.

a few days later, as i was telling a friend about this very odd incident in an im conversation, i flipped over to another window i had open with a wikipedia page about duke nukem forever. just as i had finished writing the core of the synchronicity, my eye catches this exact phrase on the wikipedia page that i had open:

on september 14, 2004, 3d realms announced that they had replaced the karma physics engine with one designed by meqon.

whoa! the universe just doesn't seem to want to leave me alone. :d
these odd events have left me a little puzzled. i mean, one on hand, i'm probably a lot more susceptible to catching anything relating to karma as a result of the current events. on the other hand, i've never seen or heard the word "karma" in relation to a clan or gaming server, and i've done a lot of gaming. :)

the second event is even more puzzling. my eye caught that exact sentence just after having explained the first event in an im window. i hadn't seen the word "karma" since the first event happened, and within seconds after sharing the first synchronicity with a friend i see the second "karma" in a wikipedia article which shouldn't even contain the word "karma". it's a brain dead action game! :eek:

then again, maybe i'm grasping at straws and taking any sign as a desperate confirmation of my beliefs. i just thought i'd share it since i think that it's pretty interesting.

[Jehanne]

these posts are very interesting, i especially liked some of the things relating to wanderers who collect karma when they enter here on earth.

its something that i have been wondering, if we came here long ago and many lives ago from a different density or planet, after living many times on the earth, do we only forget when incarnated? or does the karma we pick up keep us in the density of earth? another thing, i've thought of myself as a wanderer since i learned about the term. when i think about moving on to the next density, i feel great love for this earth even though i often feel alien and want to go home, i want to stay here at the same time, even beyond karma. this is confusing actually because the yearning for this "home" can be very strong yet i am completely in love with this earth and its creatures and want to stay.

another thing, in other posts, many people talked about meeting people and feeling a sensation of knowing them before and being hit by this feeling. i have felt many times instant connections and feelings of knowing them before, but one time, i was hit by the feeling in an intense electric shock kind of way. it has always stayed with me, and even though the person is far away physically and i don't talk to them very often, i dream about them often and have these strange communications on this level. i have often wondered what this connection was because on the physical level, it is not an extraordinary connection, but on the astral level, there is alot of action. does anyone have any thoughts about what this could mean?

[ETguy]

these posts are very interesting, i especially liked some of the things relating to wanderers who collect karma when they enter here on earth.i'm glad my posts are interesting. :)


its something that i have been wondering, if we came here long ago and many lives ago from a different density or planet, after living many times on the earth, do we only forget when incarnated?yes, the veil is active during space/time incarnation.


or does the karma we pick up keep us in the density of earth?according to the law of one material, i think it does. this is why being a wanderer is risky, you can entangle yourself into a karmic mess that could take a lot of effort to get out of.


another thing, in other posts, many people talked about meeting people and feeling a sensation of knowing them before and being hit by this feeling. i have felt many times instant connections and feelings of knowing them before, but one time, i was hit by the feeling in an intense electric shock kind of way. it has always stayed with me, and even though the person is far away physically and i don't talk to them very often, i dream about them often and have these strange communications on this level. i have often wondered what this connection was because on the physical level, it is not an extraordinary connection, but on the astral level, there is alot of action. does anyone have any thoughts about what this could mean?

these people are very likely from your own soul group.

[Mikazo]

i wanted to share, in regards to this, that i do question the types of connections i share with people.

i've had dreams about one healer whose work i find interesting. in "real life" she is always very busy and cannot do question and answer sessions due to lack of time, however i have had dreams in which i've had very personal conversations with her about very deep issues. the conversations were never rushed, and there was a feeling of having time to deal with what was being said.

there's also a drummer from austria that's fairly well known around the drumming community. i've had several dreams where we are hanging out and talking, going places, and things like that. in one dream i was traveling to austria with him. he sort of comes across as having a "big brother" or "mentor" personality (i don't mean the orwellian big brother)! i got to meet him briefly in real life several years back at a drum clinic, but of course he's very busy doing his thing and i don't think if we share any sort of connection, that it's here in 3d physical.

a few other dreams have even included fictional characters i've felt drawn to, and this fascinates me enough to where i could see myself basing my whole life's work on studying it.


these posts are very interesting, i especially liked some of the things relating to wanderers who collect karma when they enter here on earth.

its something that i have been wondering, if we came here long ago and many lives ago from a different density or planet, after living many times on the earth, do we only forget when incarnated? or does the karma we pick up keep us in the density of earth? another thing, i've thought of myself as a wanderer since i learned about the term. when i think about moving on to the next density, i feel great love for this earth even though i often feel alien and want to go home, i want to stay here at the same time, even beyond karma. this is confusing actually because the yearning for this "home" can be very strong yet i am completely in love with this earth and its creatures and want to stay.

another thing, in other posts, many people talked about meeting people and feeling a sensation of knowing them before and being hit by this feeling. i have felt many times instant connections and feelings of knowing them before, but one time, i was hit by the feeling in an intense electric shock kind of way. it has always stayed with me, and even though the person is far away physically and i don't talk to them very often, i dream about them often and have these strange communications on this level. i have often wondered what this connection was because on the physical level, it is not an extraordinary connection, but on the astral level, there is alot of action. does anyone have any thoughts about what this could mean?

[Purple Dragon]

a few other dreams have even included fictional characters i've felt drawn to, and this fascinates me enough to where i could see myself basing my whole life's work on studying it.

i believe it was said that karma is all about forgiveness and understanding. dreams are our doorway to understanding our catalysts so we may forgive and love unconditionally.

with your powerful dreams, i hope you write them down somewhere to study, you may find out you have already spent an entire life studying the works you are now curious about. you may even be remembering what you have studied in the past and you may find many of the answers you are looking for right there. when we sleep, we are at one with ourselves & all others, so it is very possible you are making the connections with these people you talk about. all connections are wonderful catalysts to help us in our learning process. it's great that you are in tuned to your higher-self in this fashion!

[Jetamus]

i recently downloaded some movies from a torrent site.
it was the first time i downloaded anything illegally in months because i couldnt stop thinking about that thing david said how stealing music gives you a karmic hit.

so for the past week i have been "looking over my shoulder" so to speak expecting something to come and restore a little balance.
and then all of the sudden as i go to play one of them, my playstation 3 stops working.

i wont be doing that again.

[aqcheryl]

jetamus - one could argue that it happened because you looked for it to happen, and therefore you invited it - so its not so much the act that invited it, but rather you looking for it to happen did it.

separate topic
---------------

now i have a... opinion? statement? thought? about karma.

its said that karma can find you in following lives - so meaning if you do something bad this life, you might not feel the karmic hit until your next life. for me, i dont feel like this is true.

because every time we reincarnate we forget our past lives. so what purpose would it be to be hit or punished for an action in a past life? who we were in the past life then, is not who we are now, so that means it would be unjust.

if someone in this life is living in poverty conditions, i dont think its fair to say they must have been stealing in a previous life, kind of thing. i think perhaps you deal with the things you are hit with in this life because thats the lesson you are to learn in this life.

so i really feel like the real truth of a karmic impact is that you receive it in the same incarnation you earned that target on your back.

because in order to learn you have to know the consequences of the specific action. in your next incarnation you dont know what the action is, so getting any consequences from a previous action is pointless.

it would mean a major error in the divine universe - a flaw - and i dont believe it is flawed. therefore i believe that we get our karmic hit same life. thats how we learn - and i dont think you leave your one life without getting that karmic hit first - so its not like someone gets a 'get out of jail free' card.

but if it is that you can be hit in later incarnations, then how do you work around that flaw? someone being punished for something they dont know about, doesnt allow them to learn the lesson. instead it causes them to look everywhere but - and therefore lesson is not learned...

[ETguy]

because every time we reincarnate we forget our past lives. so what purpose would it be to be hit or punished for an action in a past life? who we were in the past life then, is not who we are now, so that means it would be unjust.
the perception of karma as punishment is not valid in my opinion. karma is spiritual newtonian cause-and-effect. if you throw a tennis ball at a wall, it'll bounce back at you. it doesn't come back to you because it's trying to punish you, it simply bounces back because every action has an equal and opposite reaction.



if someone in this life is living in poverty conditions, i dont think its fair to say they must have been stealing in a previous life, kind of thing. i think perhaps you deal with the things you are hit with in this life because thats the lesson you are to learn in this life.
living in a disharmonious environment is not equal to having been a bad soul in need of punishment. good, evolved souls sometimes choose disharmonious environments in order to accelerate their spiritual development. one learns a lot more from facing difficulty, than from being happy.



so i really feel like the real truth of a karmic impact is that you receive it in the same incarnation you earned that target on your back.
this isn't really true, as there are examples of people who have done horrible things, but never faced the consequences of their actions in their lifetimes, and in fact died at a happy old age. these people will work with their karma in other lifetimes.



because in order to learn you have to know the consequences of the specific action.
if somebody stole your wallet, you'd be upset, regardless of whether you knew or didn't know that you stole a wallet in a previous lifetime. you'd learn that stealing wallets is bad.



in your next incarnation you dont know what the action is, so getting any consequences from a previous action is pointless.
the soul is the entity that is supposed to learn from karma. you might think life is unfair while facing difficulties while in incarnation, but once the physical body is shed and the spirit has moved on to the spirit world for life review, the spirit can analyze the lessons learned and study the same karmic situation from both sides.

[HardKnockSoldi3r]

to e-wha-z; you said:
"in the ra material, they state simply that this realm of 3d is polarized towards what? service to others! how would that be enforced? how could you make it so that the system was more oriented towards service to others than it was service to self? karma. with kama, if you hurt or use some one else, you get bad karma. if you help or serve some one else you get good karma. in the most basic sense of the term, its a pavlovian system to create a leaning towards service to others."

karma basically is any act of infringment upon an entitys' free will and making choices.

service to self entities can enslave people and tell them to do what they wish only if these people want to be enslaved . . .therefore no infrigment upon free will, thus no bad karma. karma is a domino effect until you change the direction by realizing/understanding its function; choice.

[ETguy]

karma basically is any act of infringment upon an entitys' free will and making choices.

service to self entities can enslave people and tell them to do what they wish only if these people want to be enslaved . . .therefore no infrigment upon free will, thus no bad karma. karma is a domino effect until you change the direction by realizing/understanding its function; choice.
thanks for this insight, i've been pondering on this paradox for quite a while. but i think a broader definition of free will might be necessary. or i mean...how do you define free will in the context of karma?

[noppy]

i don't believe in karma and i don't think god or whatever word is used on this planet created the universe in such away that that is the only way to become enlighted beings?

why would hurting others be 'bad' karma ? what if it was a plan in the soul agenda? to get hurt? so the soul can be what it wanted to be, forgivness. or want to help others by this experience cause the soul wants to be compasion? but if you are never hurted and you want to help others who are hurted, how can you have compasion for something you don't understand?

the soul is love and love is all there is. have we forgotten who people realy are instead of the judgement we give them or what they say about themselve? why would the soul lower it vibration so it can do something 'bad' to us. why? you might know your past lives but you don't know what you've done in heaven before you incarnaited. if so than you wouldn't curse anything it's a blessing. trou that experience you can be what you wanted to be.

there is nothing to learn the souls know everything that excist you only need to remember

the only question is do you want to know? or are you afraid that the game is over, the act has been played, the story ends. the veil has been lifted.

live never ends only the illusion

i telling the truth my own truth. if i go against everything you believe than i'm happy i rocked your world. now you know by your feelings what you believe is truely serving you or not.

[Purple Dragon]

i think when ra talks about karma, they relate it more to the lessons we need to learn. it isn't so much about "good" or "bad" karma, it is more about the fact that if we miss a lesson, we build up karma that we need to release by learning our lessons.


questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

ra: i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.

questioner: if an entity develops what is called karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalysts that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

ra: i am ra. this is, in general, correct. however, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. this is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. this also brakes or stops what you call karma.

hope that helps :)

l & l

pd


i don't believe in karma and i don't think god or whatever word is used on this planet created the universe in such away that that is the only way to become enlighted beings?

why would hurting others be 'bad' karma ? what if it was a plan in the soul agenda? to get hurt? so the soul can be what it wanted to be, forgivness. or want to help others by this experience cause the soul wants to be compasion? but if you are never hurted and you want to help others who are hurted, how can you have compasion for something you don't understand?

the soul is love and love is all there is. have we forgotten who people realy are instead of the judgement we give them or what they say about themselve? why would the soul lower it vibration so it can do something 'bad' to us. why? you might know your past lives but you don't know what you've done in heaven before you incarnaited. if so than you wouldn't curse anything it's a blessing. trou that experience you can be what you wanted to be.

there is nothing to learn the souls know everything that excist you only need to remember

the only question is do you want to know? or are you afraid that the game is over, the act has been played, the story ends. the veil has been lifted.

live never ends only the illusion

i telling the truth my own truth. if i go against everything you believe than i'm happy i rocked your world. now you know by your feelings what you believe is truely serving you or not.

[onething]

noppy,

what you don't explain in your system of belief, is that if we don't need to be here, and if there is no importance to whether or not we hurt people, and if we already know what we need to know, then what is the reason for all this?

[noppy]

to remember and re-create who you are. but i'm not the one that tells what people need to lable there reason of excistens. i don't know with what agenda people came here on this planet, i don't even know my own. i don't what the soul thinks of this. i wish i knew it. i just can''t understand why we, childern of the new age need to change the world.
i can't understand why the people of the past didn't done anything, why we allowed and created all of this to happen, why the world is in such condition, now people know the truth don't take action, walk the talk. why parents, society let school screw our minds so we stay ignorance ?

if the human consciouness was the same back there when the profecy's were writen about doom **** 2012 as it is now, than yes the world comes to an end by consciously chosen self-distruction.

why have they not listen in the thousand years of time to change their own consciouness/ collective consciousness so this could be prevented?

why can we not re-create our creation of this world? why do we need to wait till 2012 4d to stop and change all of this?

we are not asking we are beggin, for the truth, stop all of this, change the world before it is to late.

[Purple Dragon]

we are not here to change the world, we are here to make the world a better place by offering our love and support for those around us. i don't think we are meant to understand why the world is the way it is, we are meant to understand that by offering love and forgiveness we can brighten each others days and by doing so make the world a better place. once everyone understands this, that is when the world is meant to change. start within and without will change with you.

l & l

pd

[noppy]

i want the truth of this world . did spritual masters not said, know the truth and the truth shall set you free, know the orgin and face it only than you can truely change it. if we are not meant to know the truth of this world than let us create the truth to change the world so we can create our world out of the truth. the truth doesn't need lies to stand up nor fear. this world indeed has a lack of love and love is truth, joy, freedom, compassion, grace, honest, responsebility, light, forgivness, all that there is and shall be. live and live is ever changing.

i'm now more wondering if the collective world wants to change to re-create our beingness as a colletive world and family or do we wana stay in our ego world living on a dying planet with zombies on it.

the humanity team that neale donald walsch created didn't grow bigger. jordan maxwell was probely right in his interview