What is the nature of evil?

[Jivatman]

i have a question for discussion about something that i don't believe has been discussed a lot in the divine cosmos; which is appropriate because he is trying to be as respectable and empirical as possible; himself stating that he believes that although channeling his great, that his goal should be to prove them scientifically. this is excellent, and has not been done by very many people, as few are gifted both intellectually and psychically.

however, the question of evil has been addressed tangentially a few times, such as the discussion about the attack on the website, my interest in the nature of it is high.

for reference on this topic, i must highly reccomend reading treatise on oobe 1 and 2 by robert bruce http://www.meta-religion.com/paranormale/obe/treatise_on_obe_i.htm or his astral dynamics book.

he also has some information on the internet on practical psychic self defense... and has an amazing story about a high level negative entity attaching to him that almost killed him.

from subjective experience, my belief is that one aspect of evil is a sort of shadow side of yourself, containing the parts of yourself that you deny, but there also appear to be real, powerful negative entities that exist.

i have a friend who knows several of his spirit guide, and he believes he has a negative one who influences him to do negative things, and otherwise he has used dxm a lot and often sees a person he describes as "the black man", as in, a man who's blacker than you the blackest you can describe from earth.

otherwise, i've also heard that despite the relatively declining attendance on the catholic church, number of demands for exorcisms has become very high, jumping some 800% over a relatively short period of time.

is some sort of negative force preparing for 2012, and will it play a role? my subjective experiences tended to have said so. i also believe bad things may happen. great things will happen too though.

i personally wonder if some of the psychics in the world have channeled things that they're not sure is appropriate for the general population to learn?

[eyez4096]

my own experiences with evil are limited to the innate ability to "sense" it in people and in things. there have been a few times that i have denied my senses of these things and later been proved most right.

case:

i met a kid in high school who was a friend of some of my friends. my first inclination was that i wanted nothing to do with him and that he was "evil." eventually we became friends by association and at one point in college even moved in together with another guy. he was always very self centered -- and a master of manipulation (and not afraid to use it). we even worked on spiritual matters together and it was through/during his acquaintance that my own awakening began. however i eventually learned that he and the other guy we lived with were by definition "psychic vampires" which is not a term i use lightly. they consciously attended social events where they could "feed off of other peoples' energy" -- this is a quote from the other guy.

before we parted ways, i realized that my interactions with him were always of the balancing nature; we impeded eachother's spiritual growth but simultaneously provided catalyst for eachother. the interactions were therefor mutually beneficial and mutually restrictive in that we each learned a great deal but accomplished nothing.

another case:

with this same group of friends, predominantly "evil," there was a situation where someone's old friends showed up in town. they had planned a party and had some convincing purpose behind it. from the moment i saw these people, through no visual clue (they looked totally normal) i knew to avoid them. while me friends were eager to attend the party, even with some warning from me, i kept my distance. as it turns out they used the party, complete with cameras, logos, and a faux excuse of it going to be on mtv or some crap, to get people to do things they would never have otherwise done -- to feed on the energy of people being in that situation. they later skipped town after ripping off their "friend" and managing to simultaneously frame her for some crime. somehow "i told you so" didn't cut it.

my intuitive understanding of the nature of evil:

evil lets self interests totally override considerations for others -- and it "shines" out from even the most careful practitioners. i can't easily describe how i "see" evil but it is a feeling which has proven right in every situation so far. evil feeds off of others' energies in many situations, and does so with no regard for the other entity other than, in some situations, manipulating perceptions to make such an activity feasible. the most frightening part of my own ability is that i can consciously "see" the latent evil in myself as if it were a color in the field of my inner vision. such an ability gives me a frighteningly real knowledge of my own capabilities even though i would, being on the positive path, never practice it (incidentally, before i began to awaken, i was very capable of using my own evil potential and always ended up either feeling inexplicably terrible when doing so or suffering a sort of "insta-karma").

i hope this sheds at least some insight into your query.

-charles cox

[Robert Riedel]

i have a question for discussion about something that i don't believe has been discussed a lot in the divine cosmos; from subjective experience, my belief is that one aspect of evil is a sort of shadow side of yourself, containing the parts of yourself that you deny, but there also appear to be real, powerful negative entities that exist.

is some sort of negative force preparing for 2012, and will it play a role? my subjective experiences tended to have said so. i also believe bad things may happen. great things will happen too though.

i personally wonder if some of the psychics in the world have channeled things that they're not sure is appropriate for the general population to learn?

dear j,

i had a feeling that we were dancing around the same campfire, but i didn't realize that you have been here so long. (and who is that drummer?)

first up, i noticed the link to robert bruce; i have been using this one for reference: http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?boardid=65 , and quite frankly, considering the current state of affairs, i prefer to keep my "feet" squarely in this 3d arena right now for presisely the same reasons: because there really is a boogy man, and i ain't going into his neighbor hood without back-up/guides, etc., and as i have come to understand it, he can't come to you here either, unless you willingly open the door and invite him in, which is some kind of inter-galictic law, or rule that all must abide by, irregardless of their +/- orintation. so right-on with your concerns.

you open up so many areas for discussion with this, that you should have numbered them! i never heard about the 800% increase either, but my responses to that would most likely get me censured, so if you want, let's take that one "out back," if you wish.

to continually live in denial of the "negative agenda" is why this planet has become the way it is. i am in the middle of a wonderful book on this same topic from a jungian psycological perspective, by paul levy, entitled "the maddness of george w bush: a reflection of our collective psychosis." in his introduction, he states: "we are living in a time where it is profoundly important for us to recognize the deeper process going on in the background. something is being reveiled to us through these deeper processes that we are being asked to recognize.." and further, "when we recognize what is being revealed to us, we become an agent of [u]service to others[u]. we then become a conduit through which the universe is [i]dreaming itself awake[i]." contact me on the pm for more info on this if it is something that interests you.

to deny the existance of evilness, is like saying that adolf hitler was the way he was because of an unfortunate childhood. he was most defiitely a "worker in the dark", as have been so many in our past, and present. what was it that ra revealed in the "law of one?, something like "that the entity known as hitler to you is now a shipping clerk/mail handler, in 4d existance," or some thing along those lines.

anyway, great start on this thread, j-man. this needs to be discussed, maybe just to help keep the wolves at bay.

bob

[Robert Riedel]

whist digging through my bag of books, i found this very pertenent little 4-page article, which may aid to define/refine/confine/ so finely, the parameters of this toughy subject: http://www.awakeninthedream.com/triggered.html

bob

[nem338nem]

bob, family, freinds, david, group:

in regard to the negative as a whole, the following is what ireceived as a reading from david (octiber 15, 2004, bob was there when i walked out of the ship and he said you were glowing with green). i have listened to my reading at least 50 times thus i can recite by memory. with david's permission i will gladly post it! a portion of it: "we ask that you please refrain your perspective (of taking on the battle of the world) for those illuminati or banking b***ds, as they have are only dutifily doing their jobs as your servants; in order to awaken humanity's shadow upon them selves. every soul must go through that dark night of the soul in order to see the shadow reflected upon them". next quote, in essence: it is not your job to take on saving the world as you had beforebut rather the raising of the bar may be set that you need leap over it time and time again, but that others may make that leap; into the blind faith that allows that growth. another staement, :humanity loves aways (and we mean this literally) hugs away, and loves away their sorrows"

that was a small portion of my reading from david, ending in "you are the love, you are the light, and so are all others; thus you are above no one and below no one at the same time, it is a privelage and an honor to serve you" adonai and amen

love you guys. ---do not fear

nelson

[Robert Riedel]

hey group- gird your grids for a big one,

the magical mystery cruise that came to be known in some circles as simply "cruisin' the carribean, with david and friends" continues to this day; indeed, i really don't believe it ever had a definitive beginning, and most certainly, it will probably end somewhere in eternity.

this is slightly off-topic for this thread, and would most probably be an exciting adventure as a stand-alone thread, but, i type slow, and i don't want to start over; so i'll leave that up to our trusty moderators.

as with all fireworks shows, ya always save your best stuff for the grand finalle. the amazing syncronicity, of how you and juls got you're appointments crossed, and then the "event," when you strolled down the gangplank, where eddy & jeanette, betty and myself were waiting there for you, and nelson, the simple word "green" doesn't cut it, man. florescent green, sparkling, greenness surrounded your presence, and my only selfish first thought was, boy i gotta try to get a picture of this! i think it was the first shot that did it. do you know, that from that moment on and to this day, including 127 or so pictures that i took about 6 months later on the "egyptian expedition," every picture taken with that camera has become tinted in some manner with shades of green! i've got a "green spynx," a "green great pyramid," and of course those lovely green everythingelses'! oh, and thanks for finally sharing a few pieces of your reading, but you know what david says about them "channelers."

has anyone out there ever heard of something like this happenning with a digital camera? i just know that the above mentioned event will always probably stay in my ""top 10 most "if you're so smart, explain this to me" wierd list.""

so what are your tea-leafs telling you lately? if you decide to run for emperor or something, i got your back, man. and always surround yourself with good horses.

we'll just label this as a sub-part of chapter one, of "how cruisin' the carribean with david and friends" has en-riched my life experiences from that point forward, and there have been many chapters. like, i can remember driving north from ft. lauderdale after we all said our good-byes-(nelson- ya gotta share the story sometime about "old-blue and air force one," as only you can tell it, definitely another chapter!,) and i swear my car didn't touch the ground until somewhere around atlanta! and then when i got home, i got a phone call....

to be continued... the cruise continues!

bob

[nem338nem]

totally agree! i wish all could have shared those experiences. nothing has been the same since, only more and more light coming through. i will share "old blue and air force one", if my battery pack can hold up i am sure that i can retrieve it from my archives. to me it is a great illustration of positive and negative, the balance, the mirror, the oneness of all things. thus the growth we experience here on 3-d so as to see ourselves reflected upon ourselves, in which we eventually graduate in order to be "responsible" for being the "co-creator" in 4-d and upward. this class (grade school) is the quickest and most painful, so you can make great strides spiritually as discussed by ra in the loo series. take in the pain with the love, stay steady, be brave, all things will pass. then you will pass the class.

may your "horse" be with you (obie-one - that is your new name bob) and all.

lots of love everyone let the cruise continue,
nelson

[Robert Riedel]

nah, it ain't new- eddy and jeanette hung that one around my neck way back on the boat. as i proposed, let's take this to a new string, opps thread, shall we? i suggest we call it something like: "cruisin' the universe, with david and friends," aboard spaceship earth, and encourage other shipmates from the past three trips to contribute thoughts and reflections. you want to do it, or shall i? hey, i'll race ya through the censors. ready? set? blah, blah, blah!

i am bob...

[nem338nem]

bob,

i support it totally. there is an essence about being in direct contact with anothers energy. such is the case with being at a workshop/seminar with david. especially when it is personalized. energy at close contact is much more that at distant contact. therefore, i totally support bob's proposal. i feel we should start a seperate discussion board for those that have visited together along with david a discussion board. we all have fond memories and spiritual graowth that we share. as david once said it could have taken only 7,000 people to have stopped world war ii. keep in mind that we could do much greater work as a team directly than you could imagine. also, know this, i have proposed to david aparticular trip set for the month of october that we all can initiate this contuing venture.

so yes bob, let the ship sail!

love nelson

[Jivatman]

seeing as you started another topic about your cruise trip, i felt that i'd like to bring this back a little; and found one of many great quotes from the gospel of thomas:

"5. jesus said, "know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

for there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [and there is nothing buried that will not be raised.]"

6. his disciples asked him and said to him, "do you want us to fast? how should we pray? should we give to charity? what diet should we observe?"

jesus said, "don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. after all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed.""

quote five is pertinent to a bit of what rob was getting at; i keep myself squarely in the 3d arena. for a while, i've lamented my lack of strong and apparent psychic ability, until recently i realized that i have other gifts, and that i've always read a lot of metaphysical information yet i'm also a very skeptical person as well, and it's lead me to some of the fundamental truths after mulling over it unconsciously for a while

but also, like the quote, one realizes that since life itself is a medium through which life lessons are revealed to you, it's a medium through which you can learn many fundamental truths, if you open your eyes to them.

and while i have great respect for those who are highly psychic, anyone may find things revealed to them... and perhaps a psychic experience may occur to me in the future? i no longer lament the lack of them.

as for evil, perhaps before i find out, i will need to understand what good is, and become strong enough.

[Robert Riedel]

seeing as you started another topic about your cruise trip, i felt that i'd like to bring this back a little.. ... one realizes that since life itself is a medium through which life lessons are revealed to you, it's a medium through which you can learn many fundamental truths, if you open your eyes to them.

and while i have great respect for those who are highly psychic, anyone may find things revealed to them... and perhaps a psychic experience may occur to me in the future? i no longer lament the lack of them.

as for evil, perhaps before i find out, i will need to understand what good is, and become strong enough.

hey, j-man,

you are totally right, and nelson and i were sent to our rooms to "time-out."
that's why it has taken so long to respond, as our pennence included having to right out "i will stay on topic, i will stay on topic," 1000 times, and also to clean 5 heads apeice.

as another "bob," this one played by bill murray in "what about bob?", learned from his wise, but neurotic doctor, played by richard dryfess, it really is important to take "baby steps" in any learning process. when i was learning to fly, i marveled at the demonstration of a seasoned veteran pilot, who, on a very, very windy day, took off in a piper j-3, and then landed it on the same runway, after a period of time, without ever making one turn! i told my instructor that "i wanna do that." he just smiled, and said: "not today, bob- you'll stall, and mess up our pretty little airplane."

in any learning experience, but very critically for one on the spiritual path, short-cuts should be discouraged, only because like other "short-cuts," like booze and drugs, they have the tendency to attract those pesky negative entities; "aha, looky here! he's got his feet off the ground! let's get 'em!

"patience" really is a virtue. you solo when your "instructor" feels you can handle it. if you try and push the issue, you might just mess-up your pretty little airplane...

bob

[Apollo]

why there is evil. a lot of people i talk to about this topic most always "play" the devil's advocate with me as i am always speaking on the side of the light. the most common argument is that we need evil to know what good is. that somehow life would be boring and mundane if it didn't go hand in hand with goodness. also that without it, we would never know what our actions entail without some kind of comparison to it. my first thought of this is that of frustration, as i know this is true to an extent, but cannot, or will not accept the why. as i pondered this realization the answer hit me, we need to know and understand evil and what it causes to ourselves and others, but only as much as an infant needs to see/hold/taste/touch a circle to know how it is different to a square. after that is learned, you no longer need the square in your life to draw a circle whenever you want or need it. the existence of evil is for us to understand the reason for light. once this lesson is learned we may walk the path of love and light and never need to delve into the darkness to remind us why. we then realize that evil/negativity/fear/frustration etc... are all just tools in the construction of the love/light blueprint within all of us. we can never wander from this path because it is the only one really available, the rest are illusions for us to understand the why. i believe this realization(or lack thereof) proves the infancy that a lot of people still have with our understanding the universe and it's magical reasons and workings and most importantly for now, our relationships with other entities both extra and terrestrial. what we all need to realize is that the "evil" in us, the part that doesn't let someone merge into traffic on a highway, or lets go of a door instead of holding it, laughs at others misfortune is not the real you. it is a mechanism that we accepted to have as a reminder of what we are supposed to be doing by design. some call it the "ego" others the "shadowy veil" to our higher selves. no matter what you call it we must understand that the guilt that arises from not doing what we know is right is not something to stew in, it is our reminder of the lesson that needs to be learned. but as i have said earlier the negative behaviour is not the real you and must not be accepted as so, or the path forward is halted or reversed. i believe that this is a fundamental truth of our so called "learning process". i for one cannot wait until our society, our species has finally learned enough from all these "negative" emotions/actions/thoughts, so we may finally live in a place where it no longer needs to exist.
i have much hope for us, i see it every day, like twinkling stars in the black vastness of space, we are out there, gravitating, loving, shining...

[katalys]

to continually live in denial of the "negative agenda" is why this planet has become the way it is. i am in the middle of a wonderful book on this same topic from a jungian psycological perspective, by paul levy, entitled "the maddness of george w bush: a reflection of our collective psychosis." in his introduction, he states: "we are living in a time where it is profoundly important for us to recognize the deeper process going on in the background. something is being reveiled to us through these deeper processes that we are being asked to recognize.." and further, "when we recognize what is being revealed to us, we become an agent of [u]service to others[u]. we then become a conduit through which the universe is [i]dreaming itself awake[i]."

paul levy found out that his intellect is not the tool to lead him out of his inner suffering (childhood abuse).
then he simply witnessed his inner processes - and fell into an altered state. the world (and psychiatrist) call that state: crazy. they strapped him up right after he had healed a woman with opaque eyes from her dream of "blindness" just by telling her the truth he saw and felt.


in may 1981 he had this life-threatening and changing spiritual awakening in which he began to recognize the dream-like nature of reality. he went through psychiatric hospitalizations as part of a spiritual emergence process. he became a buddhist teacher.
his psychiatrist pathologised his awakening, his buddhist teachers congratulated him that he is awakening to his true inner nature. he learned a lot about the processes of the unconscious by studying c.g. jung's literature.

many "leaders", "power" figures and politicians are subjected to a psychological disease
that paul calls m_alignant e_gophrenia and m_ad e_mperor syndrome (abbrev. m.e. disease).
it is the unwillingness to face one's own (our) shadow.
it is expressed (incarnated) in george bush - who incorporates the collective psyche.
the invitation is not to blame or demonize g.w. bush but to extend compassion
amidst the collective dream we are all dreaming.

bb, katalys

[moderator note: since the original book recommendation was made by robert reidel, the forum rules have continued to evolve. mention of specific books are in most instances no longer permitted on the forum, but we'll let this pass so as not to be revisionistic!:)]

[Anders Lindman]

from subjective experience, my belief is that one aspect of evil is a sort of shadow side of yourself, containing the parts of yourself that you deny, but there also appear to be real, powerful negative entities that exist.


yes, we are all connected to the whole, so in some ways all evil is also connected to us. david wilcock said (if i understood him correctly) something similar to what eckhart tolle has said, that those doing evil are in confusion. eckhart tolle said that evil is a result of unconsciousness. pretty much the same idea.

michael tsarion has talked a lot about the psychological shadow in us. my favorite tsarion quote (not an exact quote, but anyway) is: we clean everything, but how come our emotions are toxic as hell? exactly. my guess is that our toxic emotions are a result of our shadow not having been integrated into a larger whole.

my strategy for raising above evil is to simply observe and manage my emotional state. anger, for example, is better than fear, but if the anger turns sour it becomes evil. so when i feel anger i try to focus it in constructive ways. in that way i transmute my shadow bit by bit into peace and love. then what about fear? fear is a lower state than anger, so just turn the fear into anger. :mad: and then turn the anger to peace.

[transiten]

goodevening

"evil" is "live" backwards, just as the turned upsidedown pentagram stars hanging in the windows in sweden awaiting christmas..well of course it's because the lightbulb has to go down between the "horns" but anyway it looks ugly apart from the devilish association...and all these skulls everywhere, on keyrings, bags, childrens caps, tattoos...seems like pple unconsciously are expressing something?

what can you do? laugh as often as you can, say something nice, stop unconscious judgmental thinking, "smile though your heart is acheing" hey! when will the spiritual successor to charlie chaplin turn up to counteract this doom and gloom movie 2012? remember the scene while hinting at hitler he plays with the globe? maybe davids coming movie will contain some good old humour also? evil doesn't have any quality humour and no selfdistance.

transiten

[Azoma_Aaron_Gibson]

this message was no longer relevent so now its gone with the wind.

[JosephCid]

the nature of evil is the human capacity to fear ones own being.

[noppy]

evil is fear and fear is false identity appearing real. and it is a kinda boring, there is no joy and love in it. so i try not to chose fear all the time

[Mona]

i think that is a very god description of what is wrong with humanity,( what transiten wrote) this attraction to the morbid and dark, it exist in everybody to some degree, more in some people, less in others. the interest in horror and slasher movies, monsters and all that...
our race is said to be the only of earths creations that find´s pleasure in hurting others all for the sake of hurting.
that goes far beond a struggel between the mentality of "service to others" and "service to self", i´m not talking about greed and power-thugs among the elite or some mindless robber, but someting far more desturbing. i dont really belive in evil, i see this behavior more like some kind of insanety.
one thought i had about this is, if the storys of the tinkering with our ancestors dna is real, the annunaki and all that. could that explane this sickness in humanity? is that the trubbel with our dna that david mentioned in his work?

[capt.libra]

evil is just part of the duality of our 3d existance. don't fear because that feeds it.

as a young boy i remember waking my mother because of a bad dream. she said to go back to the dream and face the demon because i was stronger than it when i had no fear. mom was right!

[onething]

evil is impinging on another by force, intimidation or deception.

this is why god is so supremely gentle and never would use force or threats.

the source of evil is not seeing others as real. it's the excessive valuing of one's own being and a lack of awareness of the being of others.

i wonder if fear is the root. probably. fear is a cold and contracting force and love is a warm and expanding force. so the fearful person is contracted, and in a contracted state, you are cut off from feeling empathy (unity). the energy of one's being is stuck within.

does that mean that wise, 5th density negative beings are fearful?

[transiten]

hello mona and welcome with your 1:st post:)

you posted at 3.33! time is now 9.22 am i suspect you are from sweden, or maybe norway or denmark.

transiten

[Nirvana]

hi,

i dont remember if this was a dream or a moment of insight. but at some point i realised that in the deepest of hearts in the hearts of evil, there ultimately is only good.

i saw things in this way: if there was no negative elite, no doomsday prophecies etc, we wouldnt be here typing on this forum. we wouldnt be spending our days in search of the truth, helping others find it, relating to others in a new way or last but not least increasing our vibrations.

the good (posetively polarized) is standhefty and shines lights on whomever choses to recieve it. but it is content and does not nessecearly crave for change\evolution, is my personal thought anyway.

the negative is the opposite, constantly challanging the posetive in a dance of the greatest of illusions. they are pushing us towards the edge, both in our selves and the world as a collective. i feel that the deepest teaching in all spiritual practices is that there is no negative. it may look that way to us, but remember that even the greatest of negative gets their guidance from utlimately the same source. for all they know, they are the manipulated ones, guided by the greatest of light to create an arena of concsiousness and truly displaying duality infront of our verry eyes. a lesson much nesseceary and one that we have yet to learn collectively.

my five cents anyway, love and light to all =)