About the Law of One

[SpiralCycle]

i have read the books 1-4 i liked how they were described but confused :confused: on how it ties in with the spirit world or the existance between incarnating if your soul is doing that. i did see the patterns of how the soul evolves ect but i am not sure exactly how dimensions work other than you elevate there for your soul has more "power" per se and you can do things others are not capable of ect ect. trying to put the peaces together is all hopefully i will get more insights i have been guided to much so far and it has been good.

[SpiralCycle]

i meant to say that about the ra material earlier but i am on the second book of the law of one. i have not completed the first work yet but i like what the zero point energy and aether aspects have to offer. i heard a while back the a company overseas named steorn is going to be releasing such things. they are currently full proofing it with many highly regarded scientists and the out come will be out in a few month to see if all the mechanics are correct and prove that they are harnessing more energy than it is taking to make the colloborations run. whoohoo.

[SpiralCycle]

ok.. i have been confused with the convergence series and the law of one series. sorry about all the confusion. too much reading over the last few months has left my proccessing at an overload. ;)

[jax]

[note from moderator: this site is indeed wonderful-it is the work of tobey wheelock, a member of our forum. additional information is located in this law of one subject thread]

fyi i found free ra sessions here. enjoy. jax

from http://www.wiki.lawofone.info

the law of one sessions by ra, an humble messenger
the wiki version of the law of one sessions is a developing version which will eventually include all 106 sessions as they are on the original tapes. this is a work in progress and is being done by re-listening to the original tapes of the sessions.

this material was originally published in five books, books i-v of the law of one. they are available from the research group responsible, ll research, both for purchase in book form and for download as pdfs. the published books contain a significant amount of editing done by the original research team to clarify the channeling work. in addition, book i contains a long introduction to the work, written primarily by carla rueckert, which was intended to make it possible for a new reader to understand the sometimes abstruse style of ra's discourse more easily. in book v, which was published in 1989, 15 years after don elkins' death in 1984, most of the personal fragments which were omitted from the first four volumes of the law of one material were published along with commentary from jim mccarty and carla rueckert which offers a good deal of information on various threads of the more personal side of this material.

the wiki version is a straight, unedited version which captures the words channeled through carla as they come from the tape as best as possible. (the recordings of the first 17 sessions are very faint.) all copy corrections made by the original team have been disregarded on the wiki version. while it is interesting to compare and contrast the two versions, it is not accurate to say that the wiki version is better or more complete. indeed, a first-time reader may well find the introduction and the editing done to simplify reading the material to be helpful. for the ra scholar, the new material found in re-listening and the various re-wordings suggested by the re-listening is fascinating.

[soup]

i am heartwarmed to learn that the original
acoustic recordings may become available,
because it may better honor the ambiguities.

in this age of technology i wonder if we will
witness a metamorphosis, say from written
word to channelings on video dvd...

there seems a question of efficiency, what
is the easiest and most efficient way, say,
to upgrade humanity's "software" program.

[sparkle]

slightly confused, did don elkins die in 1984 (or 74?) this would make it 5 years not 15 that book v was published.
also i have been printing out all the law of one,info, which is very cumbersome to read. are these "books" actually available in book form?
thank you
sparkle.

[twva]

did don elkins die in 1984 (or 74?)
are these "books" actually available in book form?


don elkins died in 1984.

the books can be purchased from http://www.llresearch.org/ they can also be downloaded as pdfs there.

[emgee]

i'm a new member to david's site, after finding out about him on ctoc. it's the first time i've heard about a plausable prediction for the future, based on a positive belief system. most religious and or spiritual groups preach nothing but gloom and doom for what's to come. i've always believed that humanity will become more enlightened as time goes' on.
like ann frank said.." i believe most people are good at heart". (or close to that) if you look around, you can see signs of it now. lot's of people are now questioning the value of war. even my right wing husband! ha! we have much yet to learn. but , personally, i think the ride is more fun, if one believes the world will get better.
i'm so glad i discovered the law of one and david. i shouldnt forget david's spiritual guides either!

[AiR1k]

it goes without saying that i can only speculate what is believed to be, "truth" from what i feel resonating within my heart. i feel that there are many perspectives towards whatever it is truth can be defined as. the question is- how do we come to embrace all that is, was, or will be- and form that into one generic universal sense of understanding?
are my beliefs- just a small piece of the puzzle of that which is divine consciousness? is the truth set behind every individual their own piece to the greater puzzle? which makes me question- what exactly is the law of one?
is it the act of piecing the puzzle- and making whole with what was given?
-sorry if my thread seems illogical or redundant- just thought i could get a little clarification- and see the truth through your own understanding thus far.
:)

[of course, any responses should be from a loo perspective, as this post is in the loo thread:) moderator]

[Yusuf]

greetings to you,
ra says in the law of one,"-you are everything,every being,every emotion,every event,every situation. you are unity. you are infinity. you are light/love, love/light. you are.
this is the law of one."

peace and love to you,

yusuf

[AiR1k]

it's interesting how the law of one coincides with the idea of embracing everything that is/isn't. nothing is impossible- this is something i am a firm believer of. it kind of makes me question why we have constraints or limits in the world we live in today. if we are a part of the infinite why have we been experiencing a control as far as rules to life? and yes i am speaking of things from an every day-basis to even the extremities of flying. is the law of one helping those realize that nothing is impossible? we dream of astral projection, or have out of body experiences, or lucid dreams- etc. etc. all in which usually take place in another realm- a metaphysical realm. how do we make this a part of every day life? i want to dive in head first in-to the never ending flow of, "divine consciousness"-
i want to embrace.
so what am i to do, rather then sit here saying- "i want this i want that-"
how do we act? for me it's a matter of making myself believe this is the reality i choose to exist in- if i want to lift this pen up with my mind, what is stopping me from doing so? is it myself? is it the, "rule" that is supposedly valid for this life we live in that prevents me from being able to do so? if so- how does one break free from the mental bondage that we have come to experience thus far?
i believe we can do anything we put our minds to. nothing is impossible- and this should be the drive used to help aid me towards a better understanding of making the infinite- a reality in this life.
with thought we create,
we all think therefore we all create-
what is stopping us?
if we are the only one's stopping ourselves by creating our own limitations- then what action must be done in order to break free from such concepts?
i'm not here to point the finger- i'm here because i want to move on, and experience the infinite by becoming.
you're saying we are the infinite- does this mean that it is only a matter of realization- that we can then take the next step?
just a few thoughts- it gets exciting :)

[Yusuf]

i send you greetings,
i get the impression that you have become overwhelmed by the thoughts and feelings that you have created. your mind has become cluttered with unsubstantiated impressions and beliefs. you really can't see the wood for the trees and the wood has become entangled with brambles and undergrowth that you have put there. now you can't see your way forward.
the really good thing is you know what is happening otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions.
you create the world you live in. the constraints and limits are of your own making. you say," we all think therefore we all create." you see, you do know what is happening.
you really need to sit back and re-evaluate your existence.
ra says in the law of one, over and over again, the first step is meditation. take time out every day to find a quiet place and meditate.
got no time? find it. get up a little earlier in the morning freshen yourself up and then spend some time in meditation. start with 5 or 10 minutes and take it from there.
you say you want to break free4e from the mental bondage. do it! through meditation you will break free.
i,ll tell you what to do but the choice is yours.
first, meditate
second, read carefully through the law of one. (free on line)
third, read carefully through david wilcocks books (free on line)
fourth, keep in contact with us.
fifth, sixth, seventh, etc. meditate.
if you don't know how to start with meditation, send me a private message.
i will only be too pleased to help.
remember, you are not alone in this. we have all experienced at some time what you are experiencing. we are all one.
you are loved and will be helped.

peace and love to you,

yusuf

[Spiritheart]

i send you greetings,
i get the impression that you have become overwhelmed by the thoughts and feelings that you have created. your mind has become cluttered with unsubstantiated impressions and beliefs. you really can't see the wood for the trees and the wood has become entangled with brambles and undergrowth that you have put there. now you can't see your way forward.
the really good thing is you know what is happening otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions.
you create the world you live in. the constraints and limits are of your own making. you say," we all think therefore we all create." you see, you do know what is happening.
you really need to sit back and re-evaluate your existence.
ra says in the law of one, over and over again, the first step is meditation. take time out every day to find a quiet place and meditate.
got no time? find it. get up a little earlier in the morning freshen yourself up and then spend some time in meditation. start with 5 or 10 minutes and take it from there.
you say you want to break free4e from the mental bondage. do it! through meditation you will break free.
i,ll tell you what to do but the choice is yours.
first, meditate
second, read carefully through the law of one. (free on line)
third, read carefully through david wilcocks books (free on line)
fourth, keep in contact with us.
fifth, sixth, seventh, etc. meditate.
if you don't know how to start with meditation, send me a private message.
i will only be too pleased to help.
remember, you are not alone in this. we have all experienced at some time what you are experiencing. we are all one.
you are loved and will be helped.

peace and love to you,

yusuf
_/|\_ greetings to one and all,

this is my first time here, therefore my first post. i don't wish to appear to know it all, but i would like to share with you what i have learned about oneness and how i achieved this understanding.

as stated in this forum prior to this, meditation was the means to achieve a state of "no thought." it wasn't something that happened on the first try, nor did it happen without great anticipation. for months i diligently meditated twice each day, once at sunrise and then at sunset. i tried and tried and tried repeatedly to put my mind in a state of "no thought," which i had read about in many of the eastern philosophical texts. in those manuscripts written by the greatest minds of civilization, they talked of nirvana, a state of bliss where each of us resides as spirit already. yes, already, which didn't "click" with me until one day when i was so frustrated i was on the verge of just giving up the quest. i figured that it was just not going to happen for me, i didn't have what it took. i was resigned to failure.

at that last moment, when i came to the decision to give it up, the thought came to me to just release all my anxiety; my hold on this burning desire to achieve nirvana, self-realization. it was at that moment that i realized i was hanging onto this plane of existence for dear life! i remembered reading that it was necessary to have this burning desire in order to achieve the state of understanding; self-realization. i also read that it was necessary to be brave enough and willing enough to "die a little death."

so i did! i resolved to allow this to happen. at that instant, "i" stepped between two moments. yes between! in this physical plane that we come to know as our physical bodies, each moment is connected to the next, or at least that is the way we "see it." we think that by letting go of our hold of this physical plane we will cease to exist, that this is all there is. when in actuality, the stepping between each moment is nothing more then reaching a state of being where we already reside. essentially, what this means is everything is connected to everything else; there is no "separation." no separation!

everything, i mean everything that ever was or will be exists in eternity. having stepped between each moment i found my being floating in a vast ness unconceivable to the human mind. all around me were spheres of light floating in unison. at that moment, i realized i was one of those spheres of light, then zap. i was in what appeared to be a vortex with a bright light at one end. all around me seemingly suspended in nothingness was everything that ever was; worlds and events intact. i was amazed at vastness of what i was experiencing. then, as i looked around something started to emerge from the field of bright light at the "end" of the vortex. it appeared to be human in form, but i could not clearly make it out. so i intentional "tried" to focus on this human form. at that moment, i was back in my body as if poured into a teacup. all of the weight of gravity exerting its force on this physical form i was attached to.

i was devastated at that moment. i wanted to be back in that vastness we call eternity, where there was no tugging or pulling by forces we understand as the physical plane. i believe, i intentionally tried to focus on that form coming through the bright light. in doing so, the "i" took over and brought me back to this "reality." reality, a misnomer at best!

the thought i would like to leave the reader with is though each of us must intently "try" to acheive a state of "no thought," it is the releasing of our attachment to each moment,which will allow the shift of ages and the experience of life in its entirety.

[Spiritheart]

_/|\_ greetings to one and all,

this is my first time here, therefore my first post. i don't wish to appear to know it all, but i would like to share with you what i have learned about oneness and how i achieved this understanding.

as stated in this forum prior to this, meditation was the means to achieve a state of "no thought." it wasn't something that happened on the first try, nor did it happen without great anticipation. for months i diligently meditated twice each day, once at sunrise and then at sunset. i tried and tried and tried repeatedly to put my mind in a state of "no thought," which i had read about in many of the eastern philosophical texts. in those manuscripts written by the greatest minds of civilization, they talked of nirvana, a state of bliss where each of us resides as spirit already. yes, already, which didn't "click" with me until one day when i was so frustrated i was on the verge of just giving up the quest. i figured that it was just not going to happen for me, i didn't have what it took. i was resigned to failure.

at that last moment, when i came to the decision to give it up, the thought came to me to just release all my anxiety; my hold on this burning desire to achieve nirvana, self-realization. it was at that moment that i realized i was hanging onto this plane of existence for dear life! i remembered reading that it was necessary to have this burning desire in order to achieve the state of understanding, self-realization. i also read that it was necessary to be brave enough and willing enough to "die a little death."

so, i did! i resolved to allow this to happen. at that instant, "i" stepped between two moments. yes between! in this physical plane, that we come to know as our physical bodies, each moment is connected to the next, or at least that is the way we "see it." we think that by letting go of our hold of this physical plane we will cease to exist, that this is all there is. when in actuality, the stepping between each moment is nothing more then reaching a state of being where we already reside. essentially, what this means is everything is connected to everything else; there is no "separation." no separation!

everything, i mean everything that ever was or will be exists in eternity. having stepped between each moment i found my being floating in a vast ness unconceivable to the human mind. all around me were spheres of light floating in unison. at that moment, i realized i was one of those spheres of light, then zap. i was in what appeared to be a vortex with a bright light at one end. all around me seemingly suspended in nothingness was everything that ever was; worlds and events intact. i was amazed at vastness of what i was experiencing. then, as i looked around something started to emerge from the field of bright light at the "end" of the vortex. it appeared to be human in form, but i could not clearly make it out. so, i intentionally "tried" to focus on this human form. at that moment, i was back in my body as if poured into a teacup. all of the weight of gravity exerting its force on this physical form i was attached to.

i was devastated at that moment. i wanted to be back in that vastness we call eternity, where there was no tugging or pulling by forces we understand as the physical plane. i believe i intentionally tried to focus on that form coming through the bright light. in doing so, the "i" took over and brought me back to this "reality." reality, a misnomer at best!

the thought i would like to leave the reader with is though each of us must intently "try" to achieve a state of "no thought," it is the releasing of our attachment to each moment, which will allow the shift of ages and the understanding of how all of life is connected.

[Rhonda]

welcome spiritheart, thank you for sharing these deep experiences. well said and easy to understand.

blessings !

[daresh]

spiritheart your experience sounds like my experience 5 years ago, and well it sounds like a classic example of a non duality experience. my story goes as follows: i was searching for absolute truth, for the source, for ultimate happyness, and i searched and searched for years, through meditation, found some levels of deep peace but still i wasn't satisfied. and on one day it became to much, i was so unhappy, i just couldn't find it, i thought 'well i might as well commit suicide' but that wasn't an option cause i would have to come back to learn the lessons which i haven't learnt so i decided to sit down and not rise again untill i found my answer. with all my energy and determination i sat there and i withdrew deeper and deeper till i finally just released it all, it all fell away, on the moment i let it all go, it came from itself. a deep unity experience, being that which is, timelessness...

but as they say in buddhism, seeing the absolute is not enlightment!
wish i had more guidance back then. it reminds me of a buddhist tale, paraphrasing here.
a student had been meditating for years and one day he went to his master and said, i have this great timeless experiences in my meditation, deep unity, tremendous peace, it is amazing.
the master asked did that experience had a beginning and an end?
the student replied, yes.
the master said, go back and come back when you experience that which is very simple and has no beginning.

what the master was pointing at is that these experiences are important but they pass also and that real non-duality is beyond duality but also beyond non-dualistic experiences. it is in every experience!
it is the simple presence in every moment.
enlightment is something which can't be attained, everybody is already enlightened.
if there really is a thing as unity it has to be everywhere! in every experience from taking a poe till having deep unity experiences. the simple awareness is in every experience.

thought i'd share this,
Unknown

[soup]

...it goes without saying that i can only speculate what is believed to be, "truth" from what i feel resonating within my heart. i feel that there are many perspectives towards whatever it is truth can be defined as. the question is- how do we come to embrace all that is, was, or will be- and form that into one generic universal sense of understanding?
are my beliefs- just a small piece of the puzzle of that which is divine consciousness? is the truth set behind every individual their own piece to the greater puzzle? which makes me question- what exactly is the law of one?
is it the act of piecing the puzzle- and making whole with what was given?...

when i read this i had a curious image come to mind: it was as if an endless sheet traversing - not so unlike the newspapers on press before they are cut for publishing - but this sheet was of jigsaw puzzle pieces along a roller where they were being conjoined upon it - ahead of which and behind which they were somewhat split apart, as if in some form of endless regeneration, as if such a roller was a point where problems of integration of many fragments in some way or another, was answered. maybe its a play on the term, rolling with the flow.


soup

[soup]

...i can only speculate what is believed to be, "truth" from what i feel resonating within my heart. i feel that there are many perspectives towards whatever it is truth can be defined as. the question is- how do we come to embrace all that is, was, or will be- and form that into one generic universal sense of understanding?...


dw taught me about the nature of "projection", that possibly whatever is ressonating in our heart may truly be in part a projection of outside influence.

by way of this idea, the nature of our attitude may relate to who's in our space to a greater extent than what we self generate alone in solitude.

so an act of embracing "all that is" can be the discipline of growing discernation so by which we may better arrive to a point of self acceptance.


soup

[soup]

there's some effort that went into "tuning" the trio prior to making the ra contact. likewise, i propose some "sticky" that may offer to help people tune themselves prior to participating in the law of one forum, (not mandatory of course), because i think it may help those earnest in the group tune in.


soup

[soup]

i was randomly thumbing through book 5 and found carla mentioned something about tuning in the front - something about working to enhance the desire to serve others in an unconditional way. also, there was a sense from reading the fragment about others joining the circle, that some time spent in time/space contemplation and without a busy attitude seemed conducive to sustaining a supportive harmony. now, as reflecting on so many sessions where the condition of the instrument was that of low energy - maybe that's a good thing, a sort of immobilization due to low energy, as if that may somehow complement a contemplative time/space experience which goes well with the idea of tuning.

soup

[KassandraLoves]

i've noticed that the only link ive seen on here to free law of one material is now invalid....so i am posting the website i use for my research and references when it comes to the law of one....just in case there are some new folks that havent seen it yet, or others that want easy access to the books online at no charge...

http://www.lawofone.info/

its pretty easy to navigate and very printable so if you cant be by your computer you can take it along...:cool:

[moderator note: we can also visit llresearch.org and find all 5 books online]

[KassandraLoves]

[moderator note: we can also visit llresearch.org and find all 5 books online]

oh! pffffft....i shouldnt have scanned it so quickly then! sheesh.

well, chalk this one up to another link for the loo then, hahah...

thanks!

[Tammy D in CT]

i just recently (less than a year) discovered david's site and the loo material. i had been searching for something that made sense to me for a long time. i was brought up catholic, and remember sitting in sunday school thinking that the lessons just didn't sound right!! i am reading the loo now, and whenever i do, the top of my head feels like it is going to blow off!! strange feeling for sure.... very intense. :d

[soup]

i associate the top of the head resonation sensation to the idea of the crown chakra opening, which for me seems a pleasant sensation. when i first started to meditate, during long boring drives, i explored the feeling of the crown during laughter, as without the laughter. i consciously worked to open my crown as much as i could. this seems part of my theory of the mechanism behind why some people argue that laughter is the best medicine, that during laughter a person's crown may open more than usual which forms a healing connection of benevolent instreamings.


soup

[transiten]

hi soup

"from ha-ha to aha! as the msuicologist john roar bjorkvold from norway says. i think this goes as well with singing, especially in a very high pitch with strong pressure as the women did in the old times when gathering the cattle that were spread out in the woods.
a little li´ke the "yiiiha" of the cowboys or the indian warriorcry....

[troy]

i'm new to this so please bear with me. i'm currently reading the law of one material and it's fascinating! i was familiar with most of cayce's work prior to reading anything from the ra material or david and found things that don't match up as far as dating and details. my gut tells me not to concern myself with dates and facts and such but i'm just curious. in edgar cayce on atlantis the dates given for atlantis don't allign with ra's dates. so my question is who has the right dates? forgive me if this question is childish or naive.

[Babyblue]

i noticed something funny today, my wi fi connection device is called ra.... how symbolic.
heehee
love bb x x x

[Ultramind]

i currently have "the science of oneness" by dw, i was just wondering if this was david's interpretation of the actual law of one series. the reason i am asking is because i have "the science of oneness" on my computer and i also have "the law of one series" in .pdf format on my computer as well and i am planning go to my local print shop and have on of them printed off soon so i can get started reading. which on would i be better of starting with. thanks

[C-JEAN]

hello, ultramind.


...which on would i be better of starting with. thanks
i am c-jean from earth, thanks for you request, and we understand it.
we can not give an answer for your request, because it would violate the law of free-will !

ha ha. it's a joke, that you **will** remember, when you read tloo.

i did read the 2 of your choices.
usualy, when i have a "job" to do, i always do the hardest first.

sooooooooo, i would suggest to read the "source" of inspirations for david, first.
it is 5 books. looooong read, but extraordinary ! ! !

then, you read the logics and conclusions of david. . .
good idea ??

blue skies.

[B8dude]

does "death" and incarnation into, or does it mean the harvesting of your soul after 3rd density "death" into the 4th density. and what happens to the children it would seem that lesson would still be needed to be learned being that be? i have awaken my other self and feel much enlightenment. which has caused a desire to learn much more and doing so has arisen many questions? :confused:

[AiR1k]

greetings all :)

i write on this username today- a bit embarrassed by my character in the past(i've read through some old post)
so much change has happened since 2008- it leaves me feeling like a different person
parts of me still exist while other parts have faded away- or been altered through some kind of correcting phase

i wanted to apologize for any kind of arrogance i might have given off-
i was young(still am)- and was overwhelmed it almost felt like a challenge to post
...i'm headed in a completely different direction now which leaves me smiling

i wanted to thank you, yusuf
meditation has helped.... helps*** a lot

i'm not upset with where i was- as it was the beginning of my exploration into spiritual awakening... a bit loud- a bit hard-headed... but some of the things i believed then resonate with me now more then ever.... so there's no way i can be upset with myself- i'm just extremely grateful for the patient and understanding members here on this board-

don't mean to bump an old thread but felt inclined to get that out
also- many thanks to user: markm
will be creating a new name later on
this one feels- outdated :p ;)

merry christmas and happy new years

love
eric

[Karus]

this is my first post on this forum, and i hope i don't make anyone made but i just have to get some things off my chest, and i guess this is as good a place to do it as any.

now that being said, i want to say that i was raised in a christian home. but i have always kept an open mind to everyones beleafs. i listened to my friends that practiced wiccan, and witchcraft, and many other things. i even listened to people i know that are into this new age stuff. and frankly nothing ever gripped me as being true. i have to be honest i am so new to this that i have not yet read the law of one. but from reading the post i am seeing just another religion springing up in this, with everyone saying ra said. how do you know ra said anything?

seeing that it seems as with christianity, the apostles wrote it down but yet its the word of god? or jesus said. how do you know its not just a couple od guys who just have a gift od words? and that is way i am about to give up. i am soo sick of religion in any way shape or form. its nothing but a way of a few people gaining control over the masses.

now a lot of what david said in his project camelot interview rings true to me but, as with everything else i see the pattern of "it won't happen the first time" or "it might take a long time to get to this or that state" why? if this is what the universe whats of us, or the divine creater wants us to become why is it always so difficult to get to? i am sure that the replys i get on this if any will be the same as every other site when i asked questions like this will be the same "its you, your not doing something right, or your stopping yourself ect.

so i guess my first question is how do you get to the truth? as i said before i was raised in a christian home and i believed in it, i even tried to believe in it when i knew in my heart something was wrong with it.

my second question is how do you know these guys that wrote the law of one really channled it, not just making it up? i have many questions that maybe one day i will get the answers to in time.

anyway i am sorry if i have made some of you mad, its not my intention i am just trying to get to the truth and its seems like its imposable to get. thank you for listening

[evolving]

anyway i am sorry if i have made some of you mad, its not my intention i am just trying to get to the truth and its seems like its imposable to get. thank you for listening

these are normal questions to ask, and have validity. there is no wrong in asking :)

i was also raised christian, but religion never seemed right with me and i turned away from god because i thought it was all a big scam to get money for the church. i believed that organized religion was one of the banes of mankind in that it had power and control over people, and had caused war after war.

when i began to read the law of one, it simply made sense. there was not some white bearded old man sitting in heaven looking down on us, damning us for our sins and sending us to an eternal fire and brimstone hell if we did wrong. believe me, i'd be going there if it was up to religion.

in the law of one i found truth, and understanding, and compassion, and science... things explained thirty years ago that had no scientific basis, yet are being found to be true by scientists every day. half of what was in the loo thirty years ago was sci-fi, but today it is recognized science.

then there comes the spiritual side of things. it portrays a god that makes sense, where there is no right or wrong, and there is no heaven or hell. each of us are loved equally by god, and in god's eyes we are all perfect.

reading the loo will take you on a spiritual and scientific journey my friend, and i guarantee once you do, there will be no turning back from your new truth and understanding. this is no religion, because there are no churches, no priests, no cash plate, and no rules. take what you understand to be true and forget the rest. ra was and is no god, and they have told us this to be sure it is not mistaken again, like it was in egypt. ra are like older brothers to us, as are so many other channelled brothers in the galaxy. they love us and care for us, and that will become clear to you.

i could go on and on and on for days, but i think it best you go and do some reading. then you can make your own determination as to what you think.

love/light

[Foghorn]

originally posted by karus
so i guess my first question is how do you get to the truth?

dig, search, read, ask questions, etc. ... and never give up. some of us have been doing just that 30 years or more. i understand your frustration. bear in mind, all truth is personal.

there is no shortcut as there is with religion where you are told what to believe, and punished when you don't. each one of us has come from a different background, belief and understanding.

when i stopped thinking god was a old man with a white beard wearing a robe snooping on me from bedroom to bathroom and started visualized him as loving energy, in my every breath and being, it clicked.

i was not familiar with channeling before coming to dc. perhaps watching carla's recent 3 part video will answer your questions as she explains there is no conflict with the law of one and describes herself as a mystical christian.

[link to this is in the carla on law of one thread]

the end of video 2 and beginning of 3 answer
your questions.

may i suggest you listen to carla's interview more than once.
i've listened to it 3 times, not in succession, and i am amazed
what i missed from the last time i watched it.

[moderators modified foghorn's two posts into one]

[Starfire]

karus;

i believe in your search for the truth you are doing it right. you are going through the steps it takes to get to the truth. and you will get there. you are open-minded – that’s required, you are searching – that’s required, you don’t accept what doesn’t feel true to you – that’s required, and you are asking for truth – that’s required. by stating that you are giving up is a big step. giving up is a way to surrender to the truth, you are giving up on what hasn’t worked and now i believe you are making room for the truth to come to you in a way that will work for you.

i too was raised with a strong religious background - catholic christian. but by the time i got to college i did not feel the need to attend church. eventually i came to understand that religion is not about god or truth. religion is simply people organizing together that agree to a common belief system, and the rules, the doctrine and interpretations that go along with the system that are put in place. some people need that and get value from it, some people may just go along with it because it’s what they’ve always done and don’t question it. some people get value from it at first then need to move on because they’ve gotten all they can from it. all of that is ok, all are on their own path. along our paths we may pick up pieces of the truth that are valuable and let go of what isn’t.

you are perfectly justified in questioning the validity of the law of one. david wilcock has had a lot to say about the validity of it you should research for yourself what david has had to say and decide for yourself if it feels right to you. personally i do believe in it and trust in the validity of the channellers. does that mean i trust all channeled information – no. i do believe that david has a lot of integrity both personally and in the work he does and is not trying to deceive anybody. i do not trust any of this blindly. i have a foundation that i have built that i use to measure this against. i did not find my understanding of the truth through the law of one i found mine on another path, another form so to speak. when i did come across the law of one it simply reaffirmed what i already knew. it allowed me to see the truth from another point of view stated in a different way. the law of one makes sense to me, does it make sense to everyone – no. does it mean i get it all – no it can be very difficult in places without david’s interpretation there are a lot of parts i would not get at all.
i believe it takes time due to everything we do in the this physical body takes time it is simply part of the process. we work at it and things are happening that we may or may not be aware of, yet it is all part of the process. it is like going from kindergarten thru college it takes time.

trust your inner guidance to lead you to the truth in a form that you can understand. ask and you shall receive, trust and be patient.

i hope this helps in some way. :)
may the truth bless you with understanding.
starfire

[Pretorious]

hello all, i have read the law of one once so far, as well as listened to all of the wilcock videos i can find, and i read his first book “shift of the ages” (fascinating). i do believe the law of one is the most intriguing information thus attained through channeling and seams to jive with the seth material (as david makes clear) and other ancient concepts as well as many scientific discoveries. however, even though i like much of the sto and sts ideas, there is one major unresolved problem with it that i have not seen an adequate answer for yet.

for semantic simplicity of this discussion i’m going to refer to sto and sts in the common (basic) terms, good and evil. i’ll get to my main question, but it is going to require some building up here.

in one of david’s video s he talks about the reason that evil was created (by the creator, or intelligent infinity, whatever you call it. i prefer simply, the source) is that the original beings created (fully connected to the light/creator) did not have catalyst for change and became stagnant (i.e. evolution and learning through limitation and adversity). however, in david’s words (roughly) “the creator is biased toward the light”. this scenario makes a lot of sense to me to resolve the age old problem in philosophy called the problem of evil (or, why would an all loving god allow so much evil to exist). well the above seams to explain why, and if the creator is to be the embodiment of all forms, it cannot ultimately choose one form over another. however, if it is an entity that deliberately split itself into many pieces (or sub-personalities) as is an idea that comes up in many areas of literature. it ultimately wishes to reunify itself and absorb all the data it has collected with its probes (us and other beings higher up the chain of evolution/dimensions/densities). i could even refine it by saying that each role that an evil (or sto) villain plays is purposeful, but is supposed to be a temporary position that the individual person or entity is supposed to grow out of eventually because the darkness is separation, selfishness, disharmony, pain and most important…the opposite of unity. each evil ‘gang’, whether it be organizations such as the mafia, the corrupted illuminati, or kingdoms of demons out there are all a bunch of self-styled little gods all climbing over each other with deceit and murder to be top god/dog, and no respect or compassion for their other brothers in the creation, or even among themselves really because they lack compassion, which seems to be the only way to have true and stable unity. they may just be sick and misguided, ultimately forgivable by the source, creator, or intelligent infinity. but so long as they choose to remain where they are and continue their destructive behavior for longer then they are supposed to, they cannot evolve to a higher level. even the law of one and david say that a negatively polarized entity can only evolve along that path up to the 5th density and can go no farther without changing itself and learning love and compassion. this aspect sounds sensible, but another aspect sounds like a paradox compared to all other ancient traditions as well as modern explorations. i’ll get to it soon here.

i see the light and the dark as not equal poles, but the light (or the creator mind/essence) as the center of sort of an onion with many layers extending outward, getting darker toward the edges (or lower dimensions leading to more separation, entropy, individual egos. even though evil can operate in higher densities, it is still farther from the source which is unity and love. darkness is the absence of light, not an equally powerful force. yes i know for there to be one there has to be the other, but is this the way it is it was in the very beginning and is this supposed to be this way for eternity? or, is there a resolution? most other traditions and even newer information in all aspects of new exploration such as obes, past and in-between life regression, and channeling seam to point toward a resolution, that evil is only a temporary necessity, even if it exists across vast scales of time (time in our view from our level). just about every ancient spiritual philosophy that speaks of good and evil (even though there are grey areas that must be forgiven because of ignorance apparently) in one way or another says the best choice for ascension back toward the light and to have a better world to live in here free of pain is to be good (i.e. service to others) self-sacrifice in the face of temptations to be selfish and revert to our lower animal nature when we have the intelligence to choose a better way. a better way than “survival of the fittest” if we work together in true unity. a unity that requires compassion for one another.


my question is this:

(continued on next thread as this is too long to post it says. title basically the same saying continued)

[Pretorious]

(read the first half first)

my question was this:

if every tradition speaks of some form of karma, or judgment in some form, either by higher entities or the soul judging itself after it realizes what it has done wrong, why does the law of one say that an evil entity can evolve along negative path to a higher level, reach a ceiling (the 5th density), and then suddenly decide to learn love and compassion rather than have to pay for all of its evil deeds? this completely invalidates any karmic system of checks and balances. i thought the deeper you dig a hole, the longer you have to climb out of it. in this structure, what is the incentive to be good? in this structure there is no justice. hitler could be unrepentant forever and never have to face consequences. once he reaches the ceiling of the 5th density, well, all he has to do is say “ok now i choose to be good so i can continue to ascend with out having to descend and start again to repay my bad karmic debts. if this scenario is true, where does karma (or anything like it) fit into this picture? i believe even the darkest and most clever of evil entities may just a misguided and sick in the head, but for it to be forgiven and allowed to ascend it has to one day get the picture that megalomania and tyranny does not work and is wrong, it has to repent is some form or repay the damage it has done if it wants to keep its intelligence.

why does 90% of the literature (even the law of one) hint that most of the ets and other beings in the universe are good and that the evil ones are in the minority? there has got to be a reason for this, right?

maybe i’m just misunderstanding some finer point, or maybe it has not been clearly described. or, a mixture or both. but this is a serious problem that is unresolved. why would any of you be on here if there were not unresolved questions about the law of one? there are just too many, the ra entity(s) need to do a better job in bringing this information down to our level if they want to help us, or nudge us to evolve. if we are supposed to purely figure it all out ourselves, then what is the point of ra’s contact with us?
is this problem intellectually irresolvable to any degree? yes i know if i had a deeper psychic spiritual connection, taping into the higher realms (which i intend to achieve someday to a better lever) than all might be made clear that cannot be adequately explained in our limited human language, but the higher beings like ra (if they are genuine and not just another great deceiver--dare i question this authority? then they need to state some ideas more clearly when it comes to fundamental polarities and choices to be made that will affect our futures. i like all of the other areas that are often complex concepts, i can grasp a lot of it, but this area is too cryptic in the explanation so far.

well i do choose sto, the light, good, but in this law of one structure (the part that i’m having trouble with) are we supposed to be so accepting of evil that we do nothing to stop it, or heal it when we encounter it, either from outside sources of evil, or within ourselves? i can’t accept that at face value and i don’t think the truly ascended beings of the cosmos (or the source) would either. maybe that’s just my little simplistic logic talking, but i feel not, or not quite.

go ahead and launch your criticisms, or give me a fresh explanation that makes sense. however, if you just say i’m not smart enough to grasp the complexity of it (which i am usually accepting of complex and abstract ideas in other areas of metaphysics) than prove your superior intelligence by finding a way to teach it better, ra seems to have a problem with being too cryptic on this issue, and also seems to have a problem with understanding our level of “time” and calendar dates for perditions. if it came from this 3rd density level in its/their beginning as individual beings like us on this plane, than why have they forgotten how to relate to it/us in regard to our sense of time? i would think a superior entity would not loose, or fail to understand this knowledge of estimations of time. time may be an illusion in a higher sense, but to us right now in this world, it matters, especially for prophecies as to when an even will take place.

anyway, the sto/sts polarity is, in my opinion, the most important issue in this whole package of information.i’m open to hearing all ideas and counterpoints. i don’t expect an answer from david as he is far to busy now (and likely forever onward) to handle all of these questions from people on these posts, so i hope to hear from you all, or some at least. thank you for your time.

[Shrike]

i see where you come from and pondered about it my self.
but according to ra there is no "right" or "wrong". it is all just about experience and learning.
if a sts is so self centered and makes it to 5th density hes stuck there until it learns the way of love.
nobody gets punished not even the hitlers or stalins nor the good ones gets rewarded.
the judging is not about that. if you choose not to ascend then that is not punishment you simply choose to learn and experience more and if you do choose to ascend then thats not a reward but simply the will to move on.
as for karma, i don't remember ra speaking about that at all. (but i might be wrong there) [moderator: shrike is correct-loo talks about putting energy into motion and how it returns to the source]

[MarkM]

pretorius, an analogy of light and shade comes to mind, as this seems the only way for experiencing to take place. as with a canvas painted pure white, life without the catalyst to evolve might beg some darker hues with which to enliven the game.

the ra describe the negatively polarized path as being useful in this regard, and perhaps even indispensible to the progressing through the third, fourth and fifth densities of all living entities. those who graduate to the higher densities in the negatively polarized path have proven their mastery of love - love of self, here, yet as with one who proves the mastery of love in the positive polarity, as in love of and service to others, the common thread is love of the creator, as all are the creator, including self. as all experiencing has as its purpose the impetus towards evolution in love and creative excellence, concepts of good and evil are useful only to a point.

i have personally take the view that karma bespeaks the necessity of all evolving logoic creators to experience that which they create. i would imagine that this takes place on a personal level as well as as familial level, a group level, a community level, regional, national and planetary. that which is perceived to be evil or good would seem to me to be merely the law of karma in operation - not punishing or rewarding, but almost mechanically returning that which we create back to us. via this mechanism, we learn to take care as we create, and learn that whatever we create we will experience. if we want a more desirable world, we must individually and collectively take responsibility for every thought, feeling, gesture and word; for these are all creations, and we will experience the fruit of every bit of it.

one who is masterful on the negative path may well enjoy their life of extreme self service, viewing the universe and all within as raw materials for their own self glorification and lust for power and control. this type views itself as the center and crowning glory of the universe, yet this path will prove to be one of endless struggle and warfare.

in a universe designed to operate on principles of love and harmonic interaction of life, this path is fated to ultimately prove too difficult to stay on. a switch must be made to the positive path before the density of the union of the polarities can be entered. at this point, the negatively polarized entity will make the switch, knowing that it has no alternative, and knowing that it has nevertheless attained much in the ways of love, understanding and wisdom. this is why the switch does not include a return to third density and a repeating of the whole game - the lessons learned can be applied to the positive polarity.

as for concepts of punishment and being held accountable for an unimaginable scope of crimes, the law of karma as we imagine it has operated all along, as the negatively evolving one has always experienced the fruits of its creating. i would expect that this path has entailed some horrendous suffering that is in reality the negative one experiencing its own creation.

ultimate mastery of the neg path is never to be achieved, though, as the creations of the neg one always end up as having the effect of catalysing positive growth in the lives of those on the positive path. this creating is experienced by the neg one as a loss of negatively polarized energy, and the eternal dilemma of the neg is that despite an unimaginably refined ability to decieve and set traps for positives to stumble into of their own accord, its evolutionary attainment is fated to be diminished as its quest for power inevitably provides catalyst for positively polarized growth in its 'subjects'. the dance of the ages lumbers on... ;) mark

[_X_]

@ pretorious

welcome to the forum, btw...


... why does the law of one say that an evil entity can evolve along negative path to a higher level, reach a ceiling (the 5th density), and then suddenly decide to learn love and compassion rather than have to pay for all of its evil deeds?

from what i have learned, this is because the sts/ left hand path is as viable as the sto/ right hand path. they are two intelligences that exist in nature, and both are viable, though at levels beyond this, it becomes impossible for them to coincide with each other... but both lead to the same destination, greater oneness and unification. eventually, you become so altruistic that you become selfish, and you become so selfish you become altruistic. since all are one, it doesn't matter what you serve beyond a certain point because you have expanded and merged with greater oneness-- it is possible, however unlikely, to be polarized sts going into 6d, but definitely not coming out.

the sts on this planet have a ritual called "crossing the abyss", where they believe they transcend the boundaries of good and evil, but this is usually employed by neophyte psycho-sociopaths... but the idea is loosely modeled behind the concept of ascension and "godhood", and other rituals are employed to try to actualize this for the individual here in this lifetime (or so they believe, when in actuality it's another aspect of the great pyramid scheme... see the south park episode about the super adventure club. crowley did a bit of rock climbing, from what i understand...).

but the question is ascending into what? again, greater unity with the creator. but so long as you see your egoic being as the ends to the means, then you'll run into problems... however, it is possible to be really good at doing evil! the creator has allowed for these experiences...

you're right to point out that it isn't a evenly balanced contrast between good and evil. one is smaller than the other. energetic systems must either disperse their entropy, or contain it to the point of stress. spiritual beings aren't much different, i would imagine, and it is just generally easier to surrender to the creator than to try to steer all of creation your way. but yet, this is the mindset of some people...


@ markm


one who is masterful on the negative path may well enjoy their life of extreme self service... this type views itself as the center and crowning glory of the universe, yet this path will prove to be one of endless struggle and warfare.

well said... it is important to note, too, that eternal cycles of struggle and warfare are actually desirable to these entities. "horus", rather the actual egyptian "heru", is where we get the word "hero", who is the main character of the lucifer myth. hollywood and our pop mythologies are rife with hero myths, which promote the luciferian values of conflict and conquest over the human values of compassion and surrender. this is the religion that gave us the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest doctrine.

eventually i'll gain enough levels, get that phat loot and the sword of überpwnage, and challenge the gods themselves! don't you see how l33t i am?!... kneel, i say! kneel!!

[_X_]

i have to throw this in as well...

each path has two operative functions to it. i've used the classic occult terms, left hand path and right hand path, but it's interchangeable with sts/ sto. just in conversation with people, i tend to use the path analogy more...

sts is service to self, mastery of other. there are two attitudes i find with this-- the dionysian and the apollonian. with dionysus, you have the revelry and depravity and self-gratification. with apollo, you have something colder and more high minded... both attitudes are left hand path oriented. you could cause pain to another because of the egoistic pleasure you feel (dionysian-service to self), or you do it because you think you know more and you say it's for their own good (apollonian-mastery of other); as an example...

with sto, of course, it is service to other, mastery of self. the wires are in the proper alignment, and no currents are crossed. getting along in the universe is just easier this way. the service to other prerogative is straightforward, and gets the most attention it seems... but, while one might not always have an other around to serve or be of service to, one can always master the self. on the 3d level, this would translate to understanding the fullness of freedom and autonomy-- in terms of self-mastery, knowing the limits therein and assuming more responsibility, seeing dedication, discipline, and integrity as principles and ends to themselves, realizing one's personal sovereignty (inherent in all the 3d participants here), and bettering one's own self-refinement... those would all be examples as such.

what good is trying to win the championship if you won't go to practice, eh?

[DFS]

hello, @ pretorious,

markm provided an excellent and refined response. rather than echo him, i'm going to focus on karma in the loo and its implications for one who chooses the sts path.

ra does indeed discuss karma. the problem is that info on a topic is often scattered through multiple sessions, which is why i find the search option on the loo web-site so useful. one of the key statements actually comes at the end of a long response to a question about jesus. if you wish to review the full question/response, it's session 17, question 20. however, since dw has quoted the relevant part multiple times in various venues, i will just cut to that part of the quote:
".... in forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma."

then, in session 34, question 4, ra underscores the importance of forgiveness:
questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

ra:
i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions
which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time
as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.
****

consider the implications of these statements for one who has consciously chosen the sts path. the underlying intention of sts is control, while those on the sto path are motivated by acceptance, which is often synonymous with forgiveness. to forgive is to release from judgement, blame and guilt, all of which are important tools for manipulating and controlling others. thus, for one on the sts path, forgiveness is the equivalent of giving up control, which would be a major loss of polarity.

in other words, the implication is that since they cannot forgive, those on the sts path are permanently locked into karma, into the inertia of controlling and being controlled. as markm notes, they will get back that which they focus on and project. there can be no forgiveness, love, kindness, compassion or acceptance of other selves, for to do so, would mean losing negative polarity. one on the sts path thrives on the negative emotions and energies, fully expecting to use them as tools for controlling others and to receive like energies back.

as one who seeks to walk the sto path, i find the prospect of permanently being locked into negative energies and options horrifying. it is the worse sort of karma i can imagine, a true hades or living hell. imagining myself on that path actually makes me a bit queasy, but then, i am an em path. <smile>

dfs

[Glothr]

i've been studying the law of one for a couple months now and i've been wrestling with the many questions that pop up in my head about what i'm reading. i only have one person to talk to about this stuff that will listen to me and understand me and that's my dad. but my dad is a busy guy and i don't get to see or talk to him much but whenever i visit him we have a good talk. but i digress.

my question here is based on the ethics that we have built up over the years and how they conflict with the law of one. specifically the idea of "justice." now, from what i extrapolated from the loo is that there is no right or wrong and everyone experiences life according to what they agreed to etc. so, in society when a person wrongs another person and the victim feels the need for vengeance or justice and seeks to exact those feelings, isn't that going against the loo? if someone kills your father, killing that person right back isn't going to help anyone. you will get your karma all messed up and you will interrupt another persons life journey.

so if this instance is true, what other ideals do we uphold with "honor" when in reality it could be backfiring right into our faces? justice is one of the biggest human ideals ever to exist! so too is the idea of vengeance, and "an eye for an eye" such as killing a person who killed someone you cared about. yet these are cherished and respected ideals among society. to me this is kind of baffling. this thought has definitely changed my thought process in a big way. i see something that would normally be termed evil, wrong, unjust, etc and instead of feeling anger about it i accept that it is all a part in some person's path back to the source. just a thought i wanted to share.

peace, love, & light

[evolving]

consider the implications of these statements for one who has consciously chosen the sts path. the underlying intention of sts is control, while those on the sto path are motivated by acceptance, which is often synonymous with forgiveness. to forgive is to release from judgement, blame and guilt, all of which are important tools for manipulating and controlling others. thus, for one on the sts path, forgiveness is the equivalent of giving up control, which would be a major loss of polarity.

in other words, the implication is that since they cannot forgive, those on the sts path are permanently locked into karma, into the inertia of controlling and being controlled. as markm notes, they will get back that which they focus on and project. there can be no forgiveness, love, kindness, compassion or acceptance of other selves, for to do so, would mean losing negative polarity. one on the sts path thrives on the negative emotions and energies, fully expecting to use them as tools for controlling others and to receive like energies back.

as one who seeks to walk the sto path, i find the prospect of permanently being locked into negative energies and options horrifying. it is the worse sort of karma i can imagine, a true hades or living hell. imagining myself on that path actually makes me a bit queasy, but then, i am an em path. <smile>


this is incorrect. forgiveness is work in the orange ray.


for those of sto orientation, forgiveness must include both other-self and the self.
for those of sts orientation, forgiveness only includes the self.

as for control and acceptance, these are roads which both sto and sts travel, not a destination. every action and result may polarize one either way. were all to simply accept everything would render the illusion of this density useless, for the experience of both actions/results is about a balance in which the process of experience is gained. we, each and every one of us, choose positive and negatively many times each day, but in this is a grand purpose; without knowing the darkness, how can one choose the light?

[onething]

hello pretorious,

i do agree and have argued here before, that good and evil are not equal. good is the fundamental reality and evil only exists in relation to it. the right hand and the left hand may be equal or equally valid - but only within a limited sphere!

as to karma, there were a couple of very good answers. first, ra does not deny karma, and second, we all get karmic recompense (both good and bad) all throughout our lives, as well as into future lives. it's not like you acquire a huge debt, and then one day begin paying it off.

being reborn into 4d negative will be very difficult for the top dog bad guys, as they will be at the bottom. and what an unpleasant place to be, where not just some people but everyone is out for themselves and dishonest.

and yet there must come a time to step off the wheel of karma. a transformation of the inner character is such a time. if a person undergoes such a transformation, the person who needed to be punished no longer exists, so who is there to punish?

this brings to mind something jesus said, "judge not, that ye be not judged."
how interesting! it's like a get out of hell free card. rather than trying to be perfect, why not practice nonjudgment? rather than worrying about god forgiving you, why not just forgive everyone? it's the short and narrow path.

[_X_]

@ glothr

welcome to the dc forum!

well, i'm going to take a stab at your question here. which is a pretty brilliant...

the concept of justice really didn't make sense until i studied plato. justice is the ordering principle. it's not so much "eye for an eye", but more "everything in its proper place", everything plied appropriately and met accordingly... the daoist concept of harmony among the ten thousand things would also be appropriate here.

notions of honor, order, truth, are 5th ray emanations from what i understand, along with the ramifications of universal principles grasped. so, while there may be the laws of karma, it would be ill advised to wait for the gods solely to determine legal matters, ergo we have the earthly laws, which also follow the contractual agreements an individual enters in with the community.

the question seems to ask, "are the laws just?" that is, how well do they emulate the natural/divine principles. the earthly laws of a society are mostly concerned with 1st-3rd ray issues, so depending on how well the corresponding divine principles are grasped by a society will determine how just the laws are, like recognizing the rights pertaining to the body (1st ray), property and survival (2nd ray), and free will (3rd ray).

beyond that, there is the principle of having entered voluntary contractual agreements (oaths), which i would say will trump all else...

therefore, the law tries to mete out the societal karma of an individual's actions, while maintaining the principles of "justice", or order. if done correctly, you could say that the penalty of the law would also serve as the mechanism for balancing the karma, but only if done "justly"... that is, crimes and their proper remittances are recognized, but no lines are crossed-- no cruel and unusual punishments, for example. everything is measured to each accord...

for the person actually meting out the laws, in order for karma to be accrued, there has to be an attachment to the outcome (any further elaboration on this is welcome). so an agent of the state, if "impartial", wouldn't accrue karma for taking action for or against an individual. and while the emotional state of forgiveness is important for spiritual survival... so far as your earthly survival goes, you have rights, you have sovereignty, you deserve reparation should a harm be done to you. there's is nothing wrong with that, in fact it coincides with the whole honor-order-truth thing mentioned earlier, and understanding the principles of karma and reciprocity...

which you could say is why justice must blind herself (unattachment), lest she herself falls victim to "eye for an eye makes the world blind" (karma)...

[onething]

hello glothr,


now, from what i extrapolated from the loo is that there is no right or wrong and everyone experiences life according to what they agreed to etc. so, in society when a person wrongs another person and the victim feels the need for vengeance or justice and seeks to exact those feelings, isn't that going against the loo? if someone kills your father, killing that person right back isn't going to help anyone. you will get your karma all messed up and you will interrupt another persons life journey.

so if this instance is true, what other ideals do we uphold with "honor" when in reality it could be backfiring right into our faces? justice is one of the biggest human ideals ever to exist! so too is the idea of vengeance, and "an eye for an eye" such as killing a person who killed someone you cared about. yet these are cherished and respected ideals among society.

there is nothing wrong with isolating wrongdoers.
most victims will feel the need for vengeance, but it isn't really true that it is the highest ideal of society. and jesus specifically refuted that an eye for an eye is a worthy goal.

obviously, the situation is toughest if someone has actually killed someone you love. it takes a lot of wisdom and understanding to forgive. if we are all incarnating and all have done bad things, can you be sure you never murdered anyone in a prior life? it is the murderous who are probably the most likely to want vengeance. we are called to something much higher. until we attain that calling we are all in the same boat. getting victimized, extracting vengeance, taking on more karma...

only forgiveness and non judgment stops the cycle.

[_X_]

@ evolving

i would say dfs has some salient points.

i would hesitate to say that each action causes us to polarize... polarization is a process of refinement, like making wine from grapes. however, we are presented with many opportunities to serve the creator. all is one, one is all.

the sts recognizes this as well. since they are the creator, the creator are they, so they serve the creator... themselves (the ego). this goes along with what i call the luciferian fallacy...

the sto realizes this of course, but their sense of self is expanded to beyond their ego. anyone who has been truly in love, or had kids, or have felt so strongly about someone or something that they would selflessly give of or sacrifice themselves and not think twice about it, knows what this means.

this is why both paths are equally viable, however not equally desirable...

you and dfs are actually both correct... dfs says they cannot forgive, and you would have to add "the other", since from the sts perspective there isn't much of an other to forgive... because most of the time the survival of the ego trumps actual survival. this is what was called the death urge in classic psychology-- we engage in destructive behavior not out of our own existential necessity, but in order for the ego to assert supremacy. why we rehash painful memories, why some people engage in activities that threaten their physical survival... usually so the ego, a psycho-sensual mental construct, can maintain or expand itself.

forgiveness would mean letting go of the cycle of conflict. but for sts, conflict is what drives us. we are at our best when we are at war, survival of the fittest, welcome to the jungle baby, it's a dog eat dog world...

i think genghis khan was okay with himself after crushing his enemies, seeing them driven before him, and hearing the lamentation of their women...

[Shrike]

so if this instance is true, what other ideals do we uphold with "honor" when in reality it could be backfiring right into our faces? justice is one of the biggest human ideals ever to exist! so too is the idea of vengeance, and "an eye for an eye" such as killing a person who killed someone you cared about. yet these are cherished and respected ideals among society. to me this is kind of baffling. this thought has definitely changed my thought process in a big way. i see something that would normally be termed evil, wrong, unjust, etc and instead of feeling anger about it i accept that it is all a part in some person's path back to the source. just a thought i wanted to share.

peace, love, & light

yes these things like justice, vengeance do exist and apply to our physical world.
because it is part of the free will that we have and it's part of our duality. the so called good and evil is in everybody.

karma is more elusive to me because one can never pin point what karma does to one who does evil and vice versa.

in most cases karma is just human behavior. for example you walk in the dentist waiting room and you just sit down quietly then most likely nobody in the waiting is going to greet you or say hello. however if you step in and say a jolly good "hello" then you will get a greeting and a positive response.
this example can be scaled up to worse things or good things.
for example murder. if you get caught then it was not karma but the justice system that's got up to you and going to punish. a human duality concept.

as for karma after ones physical body dies i am not sure but loo keeps saying you and only you are your own "judge"

[DFS]

thank you, evolving, for the clarification. you made me aware that in my desire to assure pretorious that those entities who ascend to negative 4d or 5d do not escape karma by switching to positive polarity after ascending to 6d, i misstated my intent.

when i wrote: "...focus on karma in the loo and its implications for one who chooses the sts path," i should have said: "focus on karma in the loo and its implications for those who ascend to negative 4d or 5d." your response assumes i was referring to 3d and i apologize for my lack of clarity.

in considering forgiveness in 3d your points are well stated. however, i am not certain they can be extrapolated to speculations about negative 4d or 5d. in session 70, question 23, which derives from ra's example of two wanderers who, after death, found themselves in negative time/space, ra makes what i believe is a key point about experiences in negative space/time.

questioner:
i was asking these questions primarily to understand or to build a base for an attempt to get a little bit of enlightenment on the way that time/space and space/time are related to the evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex so that i could better understand the techniques of evolution. for instance, you stated “the potential difference may be released and polarity changed after an entity has learned/taught the lessons of love of self” if the entity is a positive entity that has found itself in negative time/space and has had to incarnate into negative space/time. what i was trying to do was build a base for an attempt to get a slight understanding of what you meant by this statement that potential difference may be released and polarity changed after the above step. i am very interested in knowing, if placed in a negative time/space, why it is necessary to incarnate in negative space/time and learn/teach love of self and develop—i guess—a sixth-density level of polarity before you can release that potential difference. could you speak on that subject?
ra: i am ra. this will be the last full query of this working.
the entity which incarnates into negative space/time will not find it possible to
maintain any significant positive polarity as negativity, when pure, is a type of
gravity well, shall we say, pulling all into it. thus the entity, while remembering
its learned and preferred polarity, must needs make use of the catalyst given and
recapitulate the lessons of service to self in order to build up enough polarity
in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal.
****

for me, the key point is ra's statement that: "the entity which incarnates into negative space/time will not find it possible to maintain any significant positive polarity as negativity, when pure, is a type of gravity well, shall we say, pulling all into it." from this i infer that the only viable possibilities/probabilities are negative ones, which one might conclude, is precisely why that aspect of time/space is referred to as "negative." <smile>

in negative 4d and 5d, mastery and control are the driving intent. this includes mastery and control of self. thus, i would speculate that one seeking self control and self mastery would not even engage in self forgiveness. to forgive or accept anything less than complete self mastery and control would be considered weakness and a loss of polarity. though i am only speculating, this is how i believe one on a totally negative path would view forgiveness.

of course, it is entirely possible that my interpretation of life in negative space/time has been skewed by my empathetic imaginings of how horrifying such an existence would be, an existence where only the negative will work in dealing with others. i shall gladly forgo actually testing my speculations and imaginings. <wry smile>

dfs

[onething]

this seems massively unfair to an entity which falls into the negative realms through error or a trap...what i don't understand is why when they lose that particular body, they cannot reincarnate back where they belong.

[evolving]

thank you, evolving, for the clarification. you made me aware that in my desire to assure pretorious that those entities who ascend to negative 4d or 5d do not escape karma by switching to positive polarity after ascending to 6d, i misstated my intent.

when i wrote: "...focus on karma in the loo and its implications for one who chooses the sts path," i should have said: "focus on karma in the loo and its implications for those who ascend to negative 4d or 5d." your response assumes i was referring to 3d and i apologize for my lack of clarity.
dfs

no apology was required, brother. i only sought to clarify what i saw as a further distortion of the law of one.

that being said, i could devote time towards a greater undistorted view on this particular subject, but i have already done work in the area of negative polarity in this incarnation, and do not desire to go there again.

thank you brother for your understanding :)

[DFS]

this seems massively unfair to an entity which falls into the negative realms through error or a trap...what i don't understand is why when they lose that particular body, they cannot reincarnate back where they belong.


here's what ra has to say:

70, 14
questioner:
oh yes. sorry about that. it slipped my mind. now, if a positive entity is displaced
to negative time/space i understand that the higher self is reluctant to enter the
negative time/space. for some reason it makes it necessary for the mind/body/spirit
complex to incarnate in negative space/time. why is it necessary for this incarnation
in negative space/time?
ra:
i am ra. firstly, let us remove the concept of reluctance from the equation and
then secondly, address your query more to the point. each time/space is an analog
of a particular sort or vibration of space/time. when a negative time/space is entered
by an entity the next experience will be that of the appropriate space/time. this
is normally done by the form-making body of a mind/body/spirit complex which places
the entity in the proper time/space for incarnation.

70, 17
questioner:
now here is the point of my confusion. if, after physical death, a wanderer would
return to his home planet why cannot the same entity be extracted from negative time/space to the home planet rather than incarnating in negative space/time?
ra:
i am ra. as we stated, the position in negative time/space, of which we previously
were speaking, is that position which is pre-incarnative. after the death of the
physical complex in yellow-ray activation the mind/body/spirit complex moves to a
far different portion of time/space in which the indigo body will allow much healing
and review to take place before any movement is made towards another incarnative
experience.

i perceive a basic miscalculation upon your part in that time/space is no more homogenous
than space/time. it is as complex and complete a system of illusions, dances, and
pattern as is space/time and has as structured a system of what you may call natural
laws.
****

from the above, i infer that what we think of as time may actually be a field of possibilities/probabilities that share a common energy pattern such as the positive or the negative, or as in our own 3d illusion, a blending of both positive and negative possibilities/probabilities. dw recently posted a link to an article about time as an illusion that we here in 3d space/time invoke or construct in order to create a sense of ordered cause/effect progression, a sense of past, present and future that enables us to place our choices into a constructed "reality" that makes sense to us.

what ra refers to as negative time/space would be a field of possibilities/probabilities biased to the negative and this field has an analog of negative space/time. once an entity has polarized sufficiently to be placed into negative time/space, that entity will next be incarnated only to the analog negative space/time. one cannot polarize negatively in 3d by conducting a holy war as the two wanderers to which ra refers did and then jump back to their home planet and density which was a positive one. if one dies in 3d with sufficient polarity and vibrations to ascend, then one will go to the time/space field that matches the entity's polarity and bibrations.

this applies to those on the sts path as well. should a negative 5d or 6d entity elect to become a wanderer, that entity will undergo the forgetting and might end up polarizing to the positive. in session 36, question 16, ra explains this.

questioner:
then the sixth-density entity who has reached that point in positive orientation
may choose to become what we call a wanderer and move back. i am wondering if this
ever occurs with a negatively oriented sixth-density entity? do any ever move back
as wanderers?
ra:
i am ra. once the negatively polarized entity has reached a certain point in the
wisdom density it becomes extremely unlikely that it will choose to risk the forgetting,
for this polarization is not selfless but selfish and with wisdom realizes the jeopardy
of such “wandering.” occasionally a sixth-density negative becomes a wanderer in
an effort to continue to polarize towards the negative. this is extremely unusual.
*

ultimately, the goal is to return to unity with the one infinite creator and it matters not which path one chooses or how many detours one may make before reaching that goal. ra does say that the two wanderers who found themselves in negative time/space did succeed in working their way back to 6d and then shifting their polarity back to the positive.

hope i clarified rather than adding to the confusion. <smile>

dfs

[onething]

hello dfs,

currently, i am trying to integrate loo with newton's work, which david mentioned again in his latest radio interview...newton may be wrong but all his hypnotic subjects seem to think that the guides who help us don't allow much negativity, or indeed that the spirit world even has the kind of negativity that we here believe in. all the negativity is confined to us on earth and comes from our own psyches.

i am not sure i believe that and am not sure newton gets all the info. the higher entities only allow him to penetrate to a certain point.

what you say here:


i perceive a basic miscalculation upon your part in that time/space is no more homogenous
than space/time. it is as complex and complete a system of illusions, dances, and
pattern as is space/time and has as structured a system of what you may call natural
laws.

does seem a bit disheartening to me and also in conflict with newton's view. i have long thought that when we go to the other side, we might still be subject to delusions and nefarious plans. the lower entities who are incarnating into 3d (us) are very much kept within a confined sphere and not privy to greater knowledge, it seems.

the trap is indeed great and escape difficult!

nonetheless, i am still confused as to how an entity who is tending toward the positive, could become so easily entrapped into what is foreign to them. i am not speaking of someone who starts a holy war and incurs a lot of negative karma, but a person who gets lost and trapped into negative really does not belong there and ought not to resonate with it.

[DFS]

hello dfs,

currently, i am trying to integrate loo with newton's work, which david mentioned again in his latest radio interview...newton may be wrong but all his hypnotic subjects seem to think that the guides who help us don't allow much negativity, or indeed that the spirit world even has the kind of negativity that we here believe in. all the negativity is confined to us on earth and comes from our own psyches.


i also pondered the obvious lack of the negative in the accounts from newton's subjects. for what it's worth, here's what my intuitive guidance offered by way of explanation:

1( newton and his clients were drawn together by mutual consent and a scripted agreement that they would mutually assist each other. thus, his subjects shared many similarities, the most obvious being to learn more about their purpose in their present persona.
2( newton's chosen tool, hypnotic regression, requires that the subject filter all recollections through the limitations of the present persona's social conditioning and collective assumptions. thus, subjects may have often been speaking more in metaphor or analogs than necessarily describing their experiences objectively, and for that reason, it is the process or stages that most accurately parallel the loo.
3( those who have not actually consciously dedicated themselves to the sts path but are mostly into serving self and engaging in negative actions that harm others can be fitted into newton's conclusions about life after a 3d incarnation. one thoroughly dedicated to sts would look to other resources for recovering past-life memories rather than entrusting self to a hypnotherapist. such a relationship requires a leap of faith that an entity consciously seeking to master the sts path would never make. such an entity might willingly become the minion of a more powerful negative entity in order to master magical workings, including access to past-life memories, but such an entity would not go to someone like newton. therefore, newton never encountered a subject who was totally dedicated to the negative path.



does seem a bit disheartening to me and also in conflict with newton's view. i have long thought that when we go to the other side, we might still be subject to delusions and nefarious plans. the lower entities who are incarnating into 3d (us) are very much kept within a confined sphere and not privy to greater knowledge, it seems.

newton's description of the process, especially the placing of a soul with its soul group in a special area fits closely with the process described by ra in session 71, question 6:
"...each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state much as you are located in space/time in a somewhat immobile state in time. in this immobile space the entity has been placed by the form-maker and higher self so that it may be in the proper configuration for learn/teaching that which it has received in the space/time incarnation. depending upon this time/space locus there will be certain helpers which assist in this healing process. the process involves seeing in full the experience, seeing
it against the backdrop of the mind/body/spirit complex total experience, forgiving the self for all missteps as regards the missed guideposts during the incarnation and, finally, the careful assessment of the next necessities for learning
..."
it is the higher self, which might be likened to the council of elders or wise ones in newton's description of the process, which guides and prompts the soul to select the next incarnation. and the higher self looks out for and protects its past self throughout the process.



nonetheless, i am still confused as to how an entity who is tending toward the positive, could become so easily entrapped into what is foreign to them. i am not speaking of someone who starts a holy war and incurs a lot of negative karma, but a person who gets lost and trapped into negative really does not belong there and ought not to resonate with it.


i think the key here is the mechanism or "natural law" that puts an entity into the proper area of time/space according to one's vibrational patterns. it's also reassuring to know that in time/space, we are telepathic and are no longer limited by the veil of forgetting. it's not some sort of arbitrary placement that ignores free will. at least, that's how i interpret it. <smile>

dfs

[onething]

hello dfs,

i agree that a service to self entity would be unlikely to go to newton. but newton asked many questions of his subjects and of their guides about how things work in the spirit world, and how those who are repetitively violent are handled.

newton claims to have taken thousands of patients to the spirit world. that is a large number to have all agreed to come into this life to be hypnotized by him and to stay within certain parameters...anyway, newton has trained quite a few other therapists in several countries of the world, so his work continues and we will see what comes up.

by the way you seem to think that the council of elders is the higher self but it seems more likely that they are indeed other selves. why not?

do you think that the way newton describes that people entering an incarnation leave a percentage of soul energy in the spirit world is in fact what the higher self is?

[DFS]

hello dfs,


by the way you seem to think that the council of elders is the higher self but it seems more likely that they are indeed other selves. why not?

do you think that the way newton describes that people entering an incarnation leave a percentage of soul energy in the spirit world is in fact what the higher self is?


i'll answer the last query first. <smile>
no, i do not equate the portion of the soul that remains in the spirit world with the higher self. ra is quite specific about that:
70, 8
questioner:
what i am trying to understand here is more about the higher self and its relationship with the mind/body/spirit complex. does the higher self have a sixth-density mind/body/spirit complex that is a separate unit from the mind/body/spirit complex that is, in this case, displaced to negative time/space?
ra:
i am ra. this is correct. the higher self is the entity of mid-sixth-density which,
turning back, offers this service to its self.
70, 9
questioner:
i think i have an erroneous concept of the mind/body/spirit complex that, for instance, i represent here in this density and my higher self. this probably comes from my concept of space and time. i am going to try to unscramble this. the way i see it right now is that i am existing in two different locations, here and in mid-sixth-density, simultaneously. is this correct?
ra:
i am ra. you are existing at all levels simultaneously. it is specifically correct
that your higher self is you in mid-sixth-density and, in your way of measuring what you know of as time, your higher self is your self in your future.
****

thus, the higher self is a much more evolved aspect of the total self and is not that portion of a soul that remains in the spirit world. here's my thinking in equating the higher self with the council.

1( the primary instance in the spirit world when a soul is working with highly evolved entities is when the soul meets with its council of elders to review the most recent incarnation and then again to preview possible options for the next incarnation.
2( newton says that while an entire spirit group may share and work with the same guides, the members of the group do not share the same council of elders. in fact, newton makes the point that each soul has a specific council of elders and the details of their meetings with the elders is a private matter and is not to be shared with others in their soul group. this is quite different from the open sharing among members of a soul group.
3( ra states that the higher self is an evolved aspect of self that after death, assists with placement in the proper location in time/space, assists with a review of the incarnation and finally, "the careful assessment of the next necessities for learning."
4( the parallels between ra's description of the higher self and newton's council of elders induced me to infer that they might actually be the same evolved entity.

my inference was pure speculation, but it possessed an intuitive logic that felt correct for me. <wry smile>

hope this clarifies rather than further adding to your questions.

dfs

[weboy78]

hello my friends
had you discussed about the diffrence between law of one and seth material on the christ crucifixion?
roberts said that jesus was not physically crucified,[46] and that it is not in the nature of enlightened individuals to sacrifice themselves. rather, a willing and deluded surrogate, who believed himself to be the messiah, was substituted in jesus' place, and it was this surrogate whom judas betrayed. according to the material, the crucifixion of jesus occurred as a non-physical event, created by "extra-dimensional artists".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/seth_material

[onething]

hi dfs,

thanks. it certainly seems the the higher self could be on the council - but perhaps as one of several, since they appear as several beings, and some of them take different roles.

there are a few things newton says that i don't like all that much. one is the the meetings are confidential. that's fine, but what if you want to share? i find hard to understand that souls who incarnate together for thousands of years wouldn't want to, or would feel the need to...but it's good they have that option.

it was also dismaying to me that while all the souls seemed to like it in the spirit world, their activities and location seem fairly constrained. ra seems to concur with that. i ultimately came to the conclusion that all these souls, which newton admits are mostly not that evolved, are not ready for greater freedom but are busy with this juggernaut of a learning process we are all caught in...

[Glothr]

hello,

recently as i have watched videos from the various sources out there on the topics of ufo's, the illuminati, the universe in general i have become a bit tired of the games. by games i mean that on every video i've watched i've seen people claiming the interviewee to be a fake or working for the negative polarity. these are people i liked and thought to be good. if i wanted to i could completely ignore the nay-sayers and accept what i want to. but that familiar question of whether or not this info is correct will always be there in the back of my mind. who knows, the people trying to discredit the people coming forward with this information could be sts workers trying to throw us off.

my frustration lies within my last sentence. i have to constantly question whether the information i want to accept is real or not. given, most of the interview/presentation data can be argued to be false or true. after meditating on this struggle i've been having it suddenly came to me: don't worry about what et races there are, what galaxies are named, who is bad/good, what the illuminati are planning, where you go when you die, or any of that. i immediately felt that all i needed was the simple message of the law of one. as long as you can live by the law and be love and light you don't need all the other convoluted knowledge there is floating around out there. this is why i love david's material so much. it doesn't focus on the little details like names or events. david focuses his message on the law of one. i have never felt david's message to be false or negative in any way.

i guess the purpose of this post is to show my appreciation of the ra material. some of the exact details ra gives can be debated or whatever, i don't focus on those. i focus on this simple message:


you are every thing, every being, every emotion, every situation.

you are unity. you are infinity.

you are love/light, light/love.

you are.

this is the law of one.

that is all i really need in my life. i don't need to know everything there is to know during my current life. none of these semantics will help me live the law of one. it feels great to get this off my chest, even if it is on a forum on the internet.

love & light

[12thUranus]

that is all i really need in my life. i don't need to know everything there is to know during my current life. none of these semantics will help me live the law of one. it feels great to get this off my chest, even if it is on a forum on the internet.

love & light

well done. i couldn't agree more. it can get exhausting, and at the same time it can make us total hypocrites- countering our purpose to live in light. who knows what is truly legitimate. who knows what is counter intelligence. who knows if the informants have been brainwashed to feed us their story.
the weight off your chest is weight off mine as well

[DFS]

<big smile>
i am smiling because the quote, "you are everything, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation...." is taken from session 1, question 5, which i consider my own personal loo touchstone. anytime i feel a bit overwhelmed by 3d, i can restore a sense of proportion by shifting my focus to the larger truths, and i do this by revisiting the key concepts contained in that touchstone response.

from this broader, more soul-like perspective, i can accept that i am a true agnostic. i truly do not know and i am comfortable with the ambiguity of not truly knowing. what i think i know are merely beliefs, assumptions, mental constructs, biases and opinions, any or all of which may be partially or totally incorrect.

thanks to the law of confusion and the law of free will, no 3d persona has more than an approximation of "truth", which means that i am free to pick and choose from any and all sources. if something resonates for me, i add it to my personal data base. if something sounds right but does not feel quite right, it goes onto my wait-and-see shelf to await further information. even things i reject are stashed in my trash data base, just in case that something i now consider false might eventually turn out to be more true than i once believed.

being a true agnostic allows me to shift my perspective from the thick of the drama to that of observer/spectator. if i can remain in observer mode, i tend to take things less personally and can more easily see the humor of events and situations. as an observer, i can be more discerning and less judge mental and can accept more readily that everyone is doing exactly what they agreed to do, and that everything truly is in divine order no matter how chaotic it may appear.

as an agnostic intuitive, i have learned to follow my guidance and to take "truth" where i find it. from a bit of graffiti, "a masochist who practices the golden rule is a sadist," to an inner voice/thought reminding me that, "to assign blame is to give away one's power as a co-creator."the first raises interesting questions about the golden rule and free will, and the second reminds me that i am a co-creator of this 3d illusion, including the stuff i judge as bad and undesirable.

rather than giving away my power as co-creator, i have adopted the distinction from the loo. it is enough to discern whether someone or some social entity is sts or sto. for example, no matter who is responsible for the bp spill, i am confident that it is the result of sts thinking and choices.

this thinking dominates because we as a collective have embraced the paradigm that elevates the most dedicated sts types to positions of power and leadership. there is an elite because we agreed this was the proper order of things.

as a co-creator, i bought into the sts paradigm, and if i want to change that paradigm, i must begin with self. stop looking outside by judging and blaming and look inside to find my own divinity. then be that divine self, live it, joyously share it and know that i am helping to establish a new sto paradigm. with mentors like dw and the loo, i believe i/we can actually pull it off. <smile>

dfs

[Glothr]

<big smile>
i am smiling because the quote, "you are everything, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation...." is taken from session 1, question 5, which i consider my own personal loo touchstone. anytime i feel a bit overwhelmed by 3d, i can restore a sense of proportion by shifting my focus to the larger truths, and i do this by revisiting the key concepts contained in that touchstone response.

from this broader, more soul-like perspective, i can accept that i am a true agnostic. i truly do not know and i am comfortable with the ambiguity of not truly knowing. what i think i know are merely beliefs, assumptions, mental constructs, biases and opinions, any or all of which may be partially or totally incorrect.

thanks to the law of confusion and the law of free will, no 3d persona has more than an approximation of "truth", which means that i am free to pick and choose from any and all sources. if something resonates for me, i add it to my personal data base. if something sounds right but does not feel quite right, it goes onto my wait-and-see shelf to await further information. even things i reject are stashed in my trash data base, just in case that something i now consider false might eventually turn out to be more true than i once believed.

being a true agnostic allows me to shift my perspective from the thick of the drama to that of observer/spectator. if i can remain in observer mode, i tend to take things less personally and can more easily see the humor of events and situations. as an observer, i can be more discerning and less judge mental and can accept more readily that everyone is doing exactly what they agreed to do, and that everything truly is in divine order no matter how chaotic it may appear.

as an agnostic intuitive, i have learned to follow my guidance and to take "truth" where i find it. from a bit of graffiti, "a masochist who practices the golden rule is a sadist," to an inner voice/thought reminding me that, "to assign blame is to give away one's power as a co-creator."the first raises interesting questions about the golden rule and free will, and the second reminds me that i am a co-creator of this 3d illusion, including the stuff i judge as bad and undesirable.

rather than giving away my power as co-creator, i have adopted the distinction from the loo. it is enough to discern whether someone or some social entity is sts or sto. for example, no matter who is responsible for the bp spill, i am confident that it is the result of sts thinking and choices.

this thinking dominates because we as a collective have embraced the paradigm that elevates the most dedicated sts types to positions of power and leadership. there is an elite because we agreed this was the proper order of things.

as a co-creator, i bought into the sts paradigm, and if i want to change that paradigm, i must begin with self. stop looking outside by judging and blaming and look inside to find my own divinity. then be that divine self, live it, joyously share it and know that i am helping to establish a new sto paradigm. with mentors like dw and the loo, i believe i/we can actually pull it off. <smile>

dfs

thank you for your input dfs. i agree with you on many levels. i myself am also an observer of sorts. for the majority of my life i've always opted to observe people and situations rather than be the center of them. while i don't reject my own emotions, rather i embrace every emotion and recognize its opposing emotion (such as the loo suggests). all the world is a stage and i am but another person in the audience, learning and observing.

i don't know if you have ever read any of marcus aurelius' work but a quote of his that i have chosen to live by, alongside the golden rule, is this:


"to refrain from imitation is the best form of revenge."

whenever i feel angry or upset at someone/something and want to attack them back i bring this statement into my consciousness and i make the pond that is my mind still once again. forgiveness means the stoppage of the wheel of karma.

[onething]

for anyone who has read [please email for name's] work, one thing that is worrying me is that he describes souls as being sort of literally born, being young and rather childish and being gently nurtured like infants, before beginning their incarnations.
now, one phrase from eastern spirituality that makes sense to me is "that which is not born cannot die."

but if we are born then we can die. now, the law of one seems to say that at the end of 8th density, we merge with the void and lose even memory, which i must say does not sound like a goal i want to work toward.

so maybe we are not immortal beings?

[12thUranus]

for anyone who has read [please email for name's] work, one thing that is worrying me is that he describes souls as being sort of literally born, being young and rather childish and being gently nurtured like infants, before beginning their incarnations.
now, one phrase from eastern spirituality that makes sense to me is "that which is not born cannot die."

but if we are born then we can die. now, the law of one seems to say that at the end of 8th density, we merge with the void and lose even memory, which i must say does not sound like a goal i want to work toward.

so maybe we are not immortal beings?

i have actually thought about this lately. dunno whose work you are referring to, but i understand the meaning.
i think many teachers/philosophies use very descriptive analogies for spiritual maturation. astrology comes to mind- how aries is the infant and pisces the karmic completion.
to your question, i find clarity in the idea that what they are describing is a process. meaning when one first enters fourth density, or any density, they are just babies who will need to fulfill all the necessary steps before achieving fifth. and, as you stated, once one reaches eighth density, which is really the first density, then the cycle starts completely over as an "infant" soul. this allows for the "infant philosophy" as a learning tool to coexist with the fundamental reality that "if we never die, then there never was a time when we never were." so, whoever you are referring to specifically, i think you can take that person at their word for who they are, an imperfect being. that's not to say that their information is not useful.

[Glothr]

for anyone who has read [please email for name's] work, one thing that is worrying me is that he describes souls as being sort of literally born, being young and rather childish and being gently nurtured like infants, before beginning their incarnations.
now, one phrase from eastern spirituality that makes sense to me is "that which is not born cannot die."

but if we are born then we can die. now, the law of one seems to say that at the end of 8th density, we merge with the void and lose even memory, which i must say does not sound like a goal i want to work toward.

so maybe we are not immortal beings?

i can see what you mean. i'd wager a majority of people would feel/do feel the same way about losing all sense of independent identity. but if you think about it becoming one again means you will have knowledge of everything that is happening, has happened, will happen, etc. if i had to guess i'd say rather than the memories being gone forever they will be available but you wouldn't see them from just your own perspective. rather you would see them from the perspective of the infinite.

also, the reason we have a sense of independence, of self, is due to the veiling we go through when we incarnate. this would logically mean that you aren't really a separate entity in the first place. we think we are because of the veiling. if it were to magically lift tomorrow and you had all the knowledge of the universe you wouldn't see the point in having a single identity. i don't know if that makes sense, or if i'm even mildly correct, but it is something worth thinking about.

[onething]

well, i would like to point out that the author i mentioned has been discussed openly here several times before, and david has been extolling his work on two recent radio interviews.

it does conflict with the law of one in some ways, so it would be nice to be able to discuss it.

but anyway, to 12th uranus, the thing is, the data this man presents is not his, but gleaned from thousands of individuals in trance states. although i imagine it was only a very few who described the birth of souls.

and glothr, i like your interpretation of the memory loss, it's probably something like that. i always tell myself when something about reality doesn't seem attractive, that i just don't understand it, since in my very optimistic opinion, the truth, whatever it turns out to be, is the absolutely best and most wonderful among all possibilities. i mean, that's the law!

[Kreecher]

i've had this question too a while ago and it wasn't until i read your question, that i realized that i had formed an answer to that question for myself. not all the words i use are "purely" mine of course. it is a mix based on everything i was allowed to learn so far by following classes, interacting with people, reading books, checking intuition, contemplating, .... perhaps it will be useful for you, perhaps it will not, but since i decided to write it down for myself anyway to get some clarity on the subject, i figured i might as well share it. it's kind of a step by step thing and needs to be read as a whole since it is all linked together. sorry it turned out to be so long ;) :

that which is not born, can not die: i agree with this statement. but as with many things and especially words, they are open to interpretation. and "being born" can have more than one meaning and we will look at it differently, depending on where we stand in our evolution. to keep it simple, i'll take two extremes:


when we are still in the early "child stages", our bodies will indeed be born. and at some point our ego, corresponding to that life and our "desires/wantings" at that time, will emerge.

i see the ego as an energy "born out of" our own imbalances, which start at a very young age. an imbalance usually expresses itself as an emotion, which is a "feeling" that is out of balance. emotions emerge when we "want" or "not want" something. (ex. i don't want to be cold, i want food that i like, i dont want to interact with person x because i dont like how i allow myself to feel around him, etc) so every time that we have an emotional reaction, energy is created and stored in our energetic body. all these energies ball together and our ego is born. from this stage, we tend to have a lot of emotional connections to our ego's and bodies and identify ourselves with them.

when we come closer to what for example tibetan buddhism calls "becoming enlightened" or what the loo calls "becoming one", the only thing we are really doing is re-balancing ourselves. so we are getting rid of "emotions" and replacing them with "feelings" again. we are learning not to "want" or not to "not want" things, situations, emotions, ... the clues are in pretty much all the esoteric teachings, since most of them have this oneliner in some form or shape: "live in the now".

when we want or not want, we do not live in the now. when we want something, it means it isn't there right there and then, so it means we're longing for something that might be in a future event. when we "don't want" something, it means it is there, wheter physically or in an emotional reaction, it exists on some level and we don't want it to exist. so again, when not wanting something, we are not living in the now, but in the past, because we long for a moment that the thing we didn't want but is now here, was not there.

from this stage, we are balancing out our emotions and connections to our ego's and body. and we are learning that we are more than body and ego.


based on the above i concluded that indeed, because our bodies are "born", they will also die. but we or something in us existed before our new body did. a body cannot live without life energy. if there is no life energy incarnating into a body it will not live. in the same manner the body only dies when this life energy excarnates again. from this i took the next logical step for me: we can not "be" our bodies. we àre some form of energy, since it is some form of energy incarnating and excarnating. so basically our bodies are the vessel for the life energy we are, and we do carry the responsibility to take care of it as well as we can, without attaching "emotions" to caring for it.

the other conclusion i can make for myself, is the fact that when our physical bodies die, the ego's we created will as well. simply because an ego is not something that incarnates, but is something that we "create", that is "born" out of our emotions/imbalances. so we "are" also not our ego's. but as long as we are not the highly enlightened beings we strive to be (consciously or subconsciously), we can use our ego's to see where we are out of balance, because there is no better tool thàn our ego's to teach us where we are not in balance. each time we catch ourselves on an emotion, however big or small, thàt is when we had a unbalanced thought process resulting in an emotion. it's easy to track them because the emotions follow the imbalanced though processes really quickly and emotions are easy to feel. :)

[Kreecher]

the above is something that i found very important to understand that it really is something to strive for to get to 8th density. indeed, from the point of this density, where we still have ego's and the likes, it would not be very constructive to immediately go to 8th density, because indeed we would be nothing more than a drop of blue die in a giant pond. but we will not just merge with a void and loose everything we are and have been. because we do everything and are allowed to do everything in tiny baby steps. we do not go from 3rd to 8th, but from 3rd to whichever density we àre ready for. we are allowed to figure out what we are and what we are not in this density before we go to the next step. and one of our first baby steps (in my opinion) may be that we can realise that we are not our bodies and not our ego's and try to adjust our thought patterns to these possible realities by consciously monitoring our emotions. by consciously trying to get more stable, more "in balance". not getting trapped by the "positive" imbalances either (i don't use positive and negative as a value judgment, because in essence there is no such thing as pos/neg of course ;), but i need to use words to try to get across what i mean), because being "exuberantly" happy for example, or "wanting" to help somebody, is also an imbalance/emotion. :)

this also means, that when and if we go to a next density, we will be ready to do so. we will not feel as if we are losing anything, because we learned the lessons we had to learn in the previous density before going to the next. so when going to the next we stay ourselves as you are right there and then, but we just become a little "bigger", "wiser", "more energized", more "a whole" or "one" again.

just as our physical body grows gradually from a baby, to an adolescent, to an adult, to an elderly in steps, so too does our consciousness. with the only difference being that there is a seemingly greater flexibility in consciousness. since we will stay at each density as long as we have to, to comfortably grow into a next one. and our bodies being born/dying "seems" less flexible. but in essence we only do this because we choose to do another round in the same density and the bodies are just helping us along and giving us chance after chance after chance to actually grow enough to consciously move onto our next big boy/girl step, to then again start taking baby steps. so in my opinion, we really are immortal beings. and with each baby step (learning in the density we are in now) we take and each big boy/girl step (going to a next density) we become more and more immortal and whole/one/enlightened...

[12thUranus]

excellently stated comprehension kreecher.

i couldn't resist complimenting you for your well thought out, detailed post. from my perch, it is spot on.

love and blessings,

[Glothr]

this also means, that when and if we go to a next density, we will be ready to do so. we will not feel as if we are losing anything, because we learned the lessons we had to learn in the previous density before going to the next. so when going to the next we stay ourselves as you are right there and then, but we just become a little "bigger", "wiser", "more energized", more "a whole" or "one" again.

i agree completely. i think people tend to look at other densities from a 3rd density perspective. the whole point of moving up in the octave is that you will gain a whole new outlook and paradigm in doing so. this makes looking at the 4th density with a 3rd density point of view confusing. the only way to know what any octave is like is to experience that octave. thus the many incarnations of one come into play. experience.:)

l&l

[Kreecher]

@12thuranus - thank you for your kind words. :)

@glothr - my turn to agree with you. :)

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

i have a simple inquiry related to the law of one.

so, basically, there are two paths: service to others, and service to self.

but i am, and you are; we are one. so if you serve others, you are serving yourself, and if you serve yourself, you are serving others. it's all the same one.

i guess the vibrations differ, depending on the initial choice of service. some like the higher vibes, some like the lower vibes. some, such as myself, like them all. :cool:

[12thUranus]

so if you serve others, you are serving yourself, and if you serve yourself, you are serving others.

that's pretty much right, but it can be explained in more detail.

if you serve others with your love it certainly will serve yourself by lifting the greater good.

if you serve yourself, it will serve others, but more in a sense of domination. sts separates oneself and creates a dominator and the dominated who struggle to flip the script to become the dominator.

yes, all is connected as one, and each path leads to union in 7d. and, yes, we all practice both forms. most of us ride in the middle, but we all recognize the people we come across that are undoubtedly over 85% one way or the other. i.e. that person you know you'd never go anywhere alone with, and then there's the person you just love being around their aura.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

i wish to dominate...

.. dominate the party. i wish to be the dominate deliverer of laughter and well being. i want to make others enjoy themselves extremely. i want to show them the best time possible, and then some. i want to surpass their expectations, to dominate their senses.

i write this to show the good side of service to self, yourself being all. i wish to empower myself, not through money, but through expansion of consciousness. i certainly do not wish to see all us gods suffer any longer by the stunted, hated illuminati. i hate them with a passion... however, i forgive them, because their ambitions, labeled evil, are organic, as most of us are hungry for something more.

i just cannot wait to start living properly, when we are all together, we all remember, and we all start kicking ass.

[11wanderer11]

i wish to dominate...

.. dominate the party. i wish to be the dominate deliverer of laughter and well being. i want to make others enjoy themselves extremely. i want to show them the best time possible, and then some. i want to surpass their expectations, to dominate their senses.

i write this to show the good side of service to self, yourself being all. i wish to empower myself, not through money, but through expansion of consciousness. i certainly do not wish to see all us gods suffer any longer by the stunted, hated illuminati. i hate them with a passion... however, i forgive them, because their ambitions, labeled evil, are organic, as most of us are hungry for something more.

i just cannot wait to start living properly, when we are all together, we all remember, and we all start kicking ass.

why do you desire to dominate? why do you need the most attention and have to be the shining star? if we're all one, we're all equal. we're all special. if you know we're all god than why would you try & project yourself above as the best or most whatever?

[Agon]

i wish to dominate...

.. dominate the party. i wish to be the dominate deliverer of laughter and well being. i want to make others enjoy themselves extremely. i want to show them the best time possible, and then some. i want to surpass their expectations, to dominate their senses.

i write this to show the good side of service to self, yourself being all. i wish to empower myself, not through money, but through expansion of consciousness. i certainly do not wish to see all us gods suffer any longer by the stunted, hated illuminati. i hate them with a passion... however, i forgive them, because their ambitions, labeled evil, are organic, as most of us are hungry for something more.

i just cannot wait to start living properly, when we are all together, we all remember, and we all start kicking ass.
now although the illuminati get the "hatred" feeling from most after hearing them; you have to realize- they are only on this earth as part of your lesson. we are all an intertwined illusion of our higher selfs perfectly made and balanced for the 2012 enigma outcome.

hatred is a feeling you should never have(i have it to, i'm saying this as this is a life-lesson) because when you hate, you are sending out negative waves. the karma that actually comes from hatred reflects you; you'll have people in your life who hate you. you could be barrack obama and people will still hate you. if you hate others, you'll have haters.

believe it or not, if you love everyone(or atleast accept and forgive those who have done bad to you) then you won't have those people around you in your life. just stick with your life right now; the illuminati will be exposed, i assure you of that.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

why do you desire to dominate? why do you need the most attention and have to be the shining star? if we're all one, we're all equal. we're all special. if you know we're all god than why would you try & project yourself above as the best or most whatever?

because it feels exhilarating, pleasurable, and allows growth. i strongly feel that i exist to indulge, to become something that i really like.


now although the illuminati get the "hatred" feeling from most after hearing them; you have to realize- they are only on this earth as part of your lesson. we are all an intertwined illusion of our higher selfs perfectly made and balanced for the 2012 enigma outcome.

hatred is a feeling you should never have(i have it to, i'm saying this as this is a life-lesson) because when you hate, you are sending out negative waves. the karma that actually comes from hatred reflects you; you'll have people in your life who hate you. you could be barrack obama and people will still hate you. if you hate others, you'll have haters.

believe it or not, if you love everyone(or atleast accept and forgive those who have done bad to you) then you won't have those people around you in your life. just stick with your life right now; the illuminati will be exposed, i assure you of that.

eventually i always come back to a balanced state of mind. after soaring with happiness, or enjoying the endless possible mania one can create from nothing, i tend to calm down, and truly become one, content with just being here.

but i crave imbalance...:cool:

hatred is a primitive feeling, thus i always try to forgive. once the illuminati are gone, there won't be anything to hate. once the veil has been lifted, the growth can be accelerated, as i won't have to work some job which doesn't make sense to work at when one knows that technology exists that takes care of these mundane tasks, and i can finally breathe in true life.

i am assured the pansy illuminati will be exposed, thus allowing life to finally break free. i feel there is so much more to learn about. this forum answers the basics of life. i feel that all that has been revealed is but the generalization of true life. i cannot wait to figure out how to see someone's soul. i cannot wait to figure out how to connect my fragment with other fragments.

until then, i'll happily play this game.

[wander-man]

once the veil has been lifted, the growth can be accelerated,

mmmm, we wander here in 3d because the veil accelerates our growth. oh yeah. bring on the pain.

[capt.libra]

speaking of the illuminati, the feed on out anger and fear. if all we sent them was love and light they would just fade away. their power is only what we give them.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

hmm... i thought it was just fear they fed off of. of course if they were assassinated then they couldn't eat anything.

:d i'm just kiddin'.


mmmm, we wander here in 3d because the veil accelerates our growth. oh yeah. bring on the pain.

what do you mean? if the veil is lifted pain would be brought? i thought we'd all feel enlightened.

[12thUranus]

ever wish you could place a veil over the fact that you know their is a veil?

ignorance is bliss, you know.

man, i wish i could reach a new place of ignorance.

[clairead]

it's called 3rd density....

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

never.

i mean, ignorance is bliss. i love ignoring tedious government, corporate paperwork bull****. but i can't ignore true life. this veil is interesting and all, but i think it's time it is lifted. i'm probably going to start praying for once, praying for this veil to be lifted.

[12thUranus]

clairhead
i meant that i'd like to stop knowing that i am in third density. i'd like to just go back to desiring egotism. the good guy never wins, and i'm feeling it bad.

hunter
is it not oxymoronic that we chose the veil yet all we desire is to rid ourselves of it?


is the veil good? or is the convincing us that it is good a ploy or trap?

[clairead]

clairhead
i meant that i'd like to stop knowing that i am in third density. i'd like to just go back to desiring egotism. the good guy never wins, and i'm feeling it bad.

i know what you meant, brother. it was a lame attempt at levity.
good guys do win. the betwixt and between space you are in is a challenge. but you can move through it and things will seem less unfair.
peace,
claire

[clairead]

is the veil good? or is the convincing us that it is good a ploy or trap?

'the realist says "the veil is."'

actually, it is for the protection of the 3ds, so they don't get confused with too many choices in this already choice-ridden place. it is an aid to focus on this game. it's just an aspect of the nature of 3d, everywhere, not just here. the game for them wouldn't be any fun if they remembered that they could just dissolve it all in an instant.

for other ds here, including myself, yeah, it can be a drag. literally.
claire

[wander-man]

this is ra talking about conditions before the veil:


questioner: then since the only possibility at this particular time, as i see it, was a polarization for service to others, i must assume from what you said that even though all were aware of this service-to-others necessity they were unable to achieve it. what was the configuration of mind of the mind/body/spirits at that time? why did they have such a difficult time serving others to the extent necessary for graduation since this was the only polarity possible?

ra: i am ra. consider, if you will, the tendency of those who are divinely happy, as you call this distortion, to have little urge to alter or better their condition. such is the result of the mind/body/spirit which is not complex. there is the possibility of love of other-selves and service to other-selves, but there is the overwhelming awareness of the creator in the self. the connection with the creator is that of the umbilical cord. the security is total. therefore, no love is terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, is made to serve for love or to benefit from fear.


questioner: ok. this is the central important point. it seems to me that if polarization was the obvious thing that more effort would have been put forward to polarize. let me see if i can state this differently. before the veil there was an awareness of the need for polarization towards service to others in third density by all entities, whether incarnate in third-density, yellow-ray bodies or in between incarnations. i assume, then, that the condition of which we earlier spoke, one of wealth you might say, was present through the entire spectrum of experience whether it might be between incarnations or during incarnations and the entities just simply could not manifest the desire to create this polarization necessary for graduation. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. you begin to grasp the situation. let us continue the metaphor of the schooling but consider the scholar as being an entity in your younger years of the schooling process. the entity is fed, clothed, and protected regardless of whether or not the schoolwork is accomplished. therefore, the entity does not do the homework but rather enjoys playtime, mealtime, and vacation. it is not until there is a reason to wish to excel that most entities will attempt to excel.

of course they did polarize eventually, but it took waaaaay longer pre-veil.

[Wisdom1111]

hi everyone, i am new to this forum and i wanted to know if the confederation of planets is the same group as the galactic federation of light or the galactic federation of planets?also i was curious about mass landings. in the law of one study guide it says that a mass landing would go against our free will and therefore it wouldn't happen. now i realize that this material is from 1981, so has anything changed from then to now because there are so many awaken:)ing now and more people want first contact?

namaste
wisdom1111

[Wisdom1111]

i really desire some answers about the confederation, named by ra in some of the law of one material.
can someone shed some light on how i can get my post seen and hopefully some replies and answers to my questions?
sincerely
wisdom1111
namaste

[evolving]

hi everyone, i am new to this forum and i wanted to know if the confederation of planets is the same group as the galactic federation of light or the galactic federation of planets?also i was curious about mass landings. in the law of one study guide it says that a mass landing would go against our free will and therefore it wouldn't happen. now i realize that this material is from 1981, so has anything changed from then to now because there are so many awakening now and more people want first contact?

namaste
wisdom1111


hello brother. i will endeavor to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

firstly, in order to have your posts seen, you must manifest it so. this does not happen immediately, but may take as long as 24 hours*.

creation is an infinite place, and as such there are a large number of (both positive and negative) entities, as well as (positive only) brotherhoods, as well as (positive only) social memory complexes that desire to be of service to the peoples of earth. i would suggest that both the confederation and the federation have the same goal of being of service to mankind prior to the harvest, but may not be the same group.

a mass landing would indeed be in breach of the law of confusion (free will), and as such this is still suggested to not happen.

if there is a large contingent of ufos to be seen, they will be from earth, used to increase fear among the people. ra said there were 548 of these craft in service (at the time the ra materials were channelled, and many more were being built. these could number in the tens of thousands now.

i will also say though that there will be more and more sightings happen through the remainder of this year, for this helps people awaken without being a breach of the law of confusion in respects to the societal mind.

* i was just pulling your leg. a moderator must approve each message before it is posted ;) this may take up to 24 hours at the longest, but averages about 1 to 12 hours.

l/l to you brother. if you have more questions, we hope to be of service in answering them :)

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

i've got some more questions about karma, which i think is tied to the law of one. they're pretty crazy, so try bear with me.

- is karma only of the 3rd density?

- is the polarity of karma both positive and negative? so if one can achieve a perfect balance of the two, one gets a zero sum, meaning they're off the cycle, and maybe not to remain much longer as 3rd density. right now i think this is true. if one does good deeds, one will attract it, right? if it's both positive and negative, you're always going right or left. if are doing the negative, but forgive, then you switch to positive. if your positive, and you... uh, don't forgive, or something, then you switch to negative.

- everybody (of 3rd), unless you achieve the balance, is in the cycle of karma. is this correct?

- - - - - - - - -

so i've been thinking about the cycle of karma. one thing that jumps to mind is, when i picture the cycle, a wheel representing karma, i don't see just one cycle. i see layers and layers of cycles, spreading out from the 'main' wheel, and going further inside the 'main' wheel.

when people simply think about applicable karma 'stuff', positive or negative, they are on the outer cycles, the slower ones. when people act and interact with others of positive or negative, they are on the 'main' wheel of karma, going faster and have the chance to go further in the cycle, more so than those people that are simply thinking, not doing.

when people initiate more so than others, they start going faster and faster, moving in this cycle further and further, either positively or negatively, until somebody reaches the center. what happens when somebody reaches the center? i think they become the cycle, if that makes any sense. what if more than one person was to reach the center? if one is so inclined, one will somehow go further in than the others i believe. if that's the case then there could be potentially no end to how fast you can go with karma, and if you're that fast/near the center, and further than anyone else, you are karma (either by accepting your place, or by controlling the place, the place being karma)?

- side question: forgiveness... you both have to forgive for your specific negative cycle to be over, right? but if you're faster than the other, potential outcomes, i would think, are more based on your acts/interactions, and less so the others, simply because you're moving ahead. if you move so far ahead to be at the center of all karma causes and effects, do you become the or part of the causes and effects of all others?

- - -

so the main question is: does any of the above make sense at least? is any of the above correct?

{ yes, no, yes, no. ..........somewhat, sometimes, depends... you're welcome, bbb...jr mod }

[MarkM]

hi dh, thoughtful questions, and i think i get the jist of where you're coming from.

i'll try to address this based upon my own experience of learning, and hopefully i can be of some help.

i'll start with the idea of an individual's inner being and the outer being. that which i call the outer being is one's environment, or world - containing everyone and everything which is experienced as being sepatate from one's self.

according to the loo, all that which is seemingly exterior to one's self is in fact not exterior but in a very sublime sense there is, outside of the distortion of the one infinite creator having separated into manifold avenues of experiencing, only one consciousness at the root of all experience of life.

now, in 3d, we are experiencing this separation, and effect of experiencing an outer world, and this is a natural state of affairs - as it is through the creator's desire to experience manyness that the creator can have any experiencing at all. but the fact remains (again, my opinion only) that the primary cosmic consideration is that there is only one.

so now to karma - my feeling is that karma represents a working of 'behind the scenes' interconnectedness, hinting at the cosmic fact that every action performed by one individual is mirrored in some fashion throughout all life in the cosmos. from this it follows that as an individual 'creates' an effect, the individual is beholden to the absolute necessity of experiencing the effect it has created, as the effect is truly that which effects all others, including the individual. the apparent outer universe seems like a gigantic mirror of the consciousness of an individual, and seems to arrange itself in order to serve as a reflection of one's inner being.

so to me karma is neither positive or negative, but is a manifestation of one's own creative nature, and speaks to the necessity of a creator's obligation to experience that which it creates. whether the creation of the individual is based in love or otherwise - or based in sto or sts - karma seems to be always the reflection of self in the mirror of life.

in 3rd density, we are learning the lessons of love and we are granted full free will in the creative paths we choose. it's very much a mysterious 'trial and error' process, and as the universe is created in love, our less than loving actions cycle back to us again and again as effects which reflect our lack of expertise. if we cause hurt to others, we are in reality causing hurt to ourselves, due to the cosmic interconnectedness of us all - and that is what we experience. here, we have the experience off cause and effect occurring along a delayed-response timeline, and the experiencing of time in this fashion protects our free will to learn in our own way and at our own speed how our choices effect others and ultimately ourselves.

time as we experience it here seems a function of allowing our lessons to manifest, and as we learn to act/create in a more than less manner of being in tune with the loving nature of the universe, we lessen our need to experience time in 3d; as time is the conveyor of our love-lessons.

to truly forgive a condition is commensurate with having come to grasp how our creating has manifest in the universe and ourselves, to replace reactive, unnaccepting emotional patterns with love, release and appreciation for the condition, to grasp how to adjust our actions to be more in tune with the loving nature of the universe, to put this new learning into action and identity of self.

here, we escape from the need for continued duration of this line of experiencing, and karmic looping is no longer a perceived factor here as the lesson is learned and the repeated experiencing of the same old loop, sometimes over many lifetimes, is no more. we now cycle upwards instead of around and around and are able to entertain the next set of lessons that our mastery of the previous one has opened us up to.

here at the end of the 3d cycle we seem to be seeing an increased rate of return of that which we create, and this may allow folks to accelerate their processing of karmic patterns. perhaps there will come a time soon when this process becomes instant - or at least gets close enough to iinstant that the third density experiencing of time (delayed effect) is no longer possible, and we flip into a state whereby that which we create is instantly manifest.

but i do believe that in whatever form, a creator must always experience it's creations, whether in linear time as we all experience here, or otherwise. i feel that while we are in third density space/time, there will always be a delayed effect thing happening which no amount of acceleration will result in our getting to the center of the wheel, so to speak, and so long as we haven't ascended beyond the beneficial effects of third density we are still utilizing cause-and-effect to hone our love, as i suspect we will as well in fourth density. mark

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

... wow. top quality reply, markm!

[billybobbutterball]

dom,
there is not very much specifically directed to karma in the ra material. if you go to the website i listed earlier you can put in a search for karma....there are 8 or 10 examples that will come up....here is an example:

"questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

ra: i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.

questioner: if an entity develops what is called karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalysts that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

ra: i am ra. this is, in general, correct. however, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. this is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. this also brakes or stops what you call karma."

from what i gather it is a mistake to think of 'karma' as a universal principle that can be exploited in the manner you are hinting at. the action reaction is moderated by your higher self.

so, wheels and gears inside of wheels and gears is in the final analyse more apparent than real in the sense you are trying to reduce it to; there is no such center from which one can rule the roost.

karma is much a learn/teach program which is what makes the 3rd density earth an unparalleled experience....where one can spiritually advance in a lifetime what would take thousands of years in a higher dimension....in the past i've likened 3d life to being in a seal training gymnasium specializing in building spiritual muscle.....yes, in the higher levels there are gyms.....but the barbells there have helium-filled balloons on the ends of the bars instead of challenging hefty plates of iron. ya gotta have resistance to get results....seems there is some truth to the old adage of 'no pain no gain.'

i'm reminded that the higher 6th dimensional social memory complex ra have declared they/it are not of polarity, but simply of the law of one.

as for yourself being enthusiastically aligned with the negative path you should keep in mind that your higher self is by necessity of positive polarity.....it knows that you will reach that position, but does not know the exact path that you will take to get there. ok , so you want to take a scenic tour, ala bunny rabbit back trails instead of going the direct route to 6d via inter-dimension 101.

that of course is your spiritual right. but also -- as mark as pointed out early on -- what you dish out you will receive back in spades.

a final note: there are many entities on earth who are not involved in the "wheel" of karma...but higher density folk do take the chance of coming here in response to the 'call'--- their peers consider them very brave -- but foolhardy souls --who take the chance of losing polarity and end up taking an extended 3d refresher course. the ra gave an example of this when two positive souls went to venus to help out some of the lukewarmers who were bored and stalled out....well, the two stumbled in their good intentions -- took charge and became a team of bloodthirsty tyrants...and when they departed they ended up in a negative realm. to say that they were shocked is an understatement! after a long endured heroic effort they finally did the near impossible and got back on track...(the two ended up with the ra group.)

considering yourself you could be of 5th negative...but this is very rare as advanced negatives fear losing their polarity on a positive planet ---which despite the way it looks, earth is.

for better or worse that is my short version shot at your complex request....:)

oh yeah! the usual disclaimer: "use what resonates, what doesn't, discard" :cool:

bill g aka bbb



[quote=dominant_hunter;57517]i've got some more questions about karma, which i think is tied to the law of one. they're pretty crazy, so try bear with me.

- ###snip too long to post - - - - - - - - -

so i've been thinking about the cycle of karma. one thing that jumps to mind is, when i picture the cycle, a wheel representing karma, i don't see just one cycle. i see layers and layers of cycles, spreading out from the 'main' wheel, and going further inside the 'main' wheel.

snip- please check out dom's previous post

[12thUranus]

when people initiate more so than others, they start going faster and faster, moving in this cycle further and further, either positively or negatively, until somebody reaches the center. what happens when somebody reaches the center? i think they become the cycle, if that makes any sense. what if more than one person was to reach the center? if one is so inclined, one will somehow go further in than the others i believe. if that's the case then there could be potentially no end to how fast you can go with karma, and if you're that fast/near the center, and further than anyone else, you are karma (either by accepting your place, or by controlling the place, the place being karma)?

- side question: forgiveness... you both have to forgive for your specific negative cycle to be over, right? but if you're faster than the other, potential outcomes, i would think, are more based on your acts/interactions, and less so the others, simply because you're moving ahead. if you move so far ahead to be at the center of all karma causes and effects, do you become the or part of the causes and effects of all others?

no. that makes no sense to me. lol. that's crazy talk man ;)

if i agreed with your premise, i could take it one step further, blowing it out of the water. i would say that the other-self on the slower wheel would loop ahead of the faster wheel self by forgiving it.
---
the ra material bbbb quotes says forgiveness is the brake. i don't think it takes both selfs to put on the brakes. the one who forgives stops his wheel (your hypothetical wheel), and immediately makes the karma patterns better. if the other self chooses to keep the motion of its karma, it can. the "forgiving self" could simply watch the inner wheel of the "karma other-self" spin and spin and spin. the two wheels no longer being tied.
---
i would think that the center would become you rather than you becoming the center, and that it is a point of reset- start over- try again. but i sound crazy now :d

[MarkM]

it may be that every attempt at coming to understand life is equally valid and valuable. ;) mark

[12thUranus]

no maybe about it! :) i value you all.

[Natho]

lol interesting post.

how the spirit world plays its part you ask.

we live in 'space/time', upon death, we move onto 'time/space'. ra did state that this was hard to explain in our vocabulary and in all probabillity, in our current state, it is a concept that we may not be able to fully grasp.

if what ra said was true, all we can truly agree on is the process which occurs after and not the actual environment in which we will exsist.
-we die (assuming harmoniously)
-our souls, in a motionless state, review the past events in order to understand/accept/forgive.
-we have helpers/angellics to aid in a teach/learn process
-after some time, given free will/will/, offered a new vessel, accept it by will, start again.

in reply to dominant hunters becomming the cycle concept. technically, we are always part of the cycle, in life and death, it makes no difference, for are you not everything?

ra replied, when posed the question, that all returns to the infinite creator. in the large picture, there are many many roads, for better or for worse they all lead to the same place, so all is well :)

[insecteye]

there are various references to the different laws in law of one, mostly referencing the law of confusion, which i'm having a bit of a hard time to understand how it ties to free will, service, love, etc. and the law of one. can someone who understands loo in depth make a summary of the different laws and how they tie into the law of one ?

here's the list of law, there may be more.

law of forgiveness
law of confusion
law of free will
law of service
law of love
law of responsibility
law of squares(?)

[onething]

i've come across testimony from military personnel more than once on videos that ufos are deactivating nuclear devices. this is great as far as i'm concerned. i can't see letting this solar system lose a 3rd planet! but i fail to see how this works with the law of free will.
anyone think about this?

[MarkM]

it may be that the collective wish and prayer of the majority of mankind is for nukes to go the way of the dinosaurs, not to mention the prayers of earth herself. perhaps our collective will in this regard necessarily invites a supportive boosting to our wishes for less than planet busting forms of settling differences, with the bulk of us not having been inveigled into wishing death to our enemies.

if it were otherwise and paramount with our collective free will, our need for learning might otherwise invite a repeat scenario of destruction. when i hear tales of ufos powering down nuke installations, i feel an answering to human striving for love, as this is what keeps us from the alternative. mark

[12thUranus]

i've come across testimony from military personnel more than once on videos that ufos are deactivating nuclear devices. this is great as far as i'm concerned. i can't see letting this solar system lose a 3rd planet! but i fail to see how this works with the law of free will.
anyone think about this?

these are very temporary "shutdowns" from the reports i hear. i hypothsize that it is more a matter of logistics than a deeper global conscience reasoning. the logistics being that nuclear facilities interupt et flight passages or space energy vortices that the planet is passing through would activate an online nuclear device.
besides, ufo pilots should be a part of free will as much as anybody. right?

[DFS]

i've come across testimony from military personnel more than once on videos that ufos are deactivating nuclear devices. this is great as far as i'm concerned. i can't see letting this solar system lose a 3rd planet! but i fail to see how this works with the law of free will.
anyone think about this?



i like mark's point about the collective consciousness and hope he is correct.

however, here's my take on the free will issue. i do not think that shutting down nukes is a violation of free will. those controlling the nukes are still free to order them launched even if the missiles refuse to respond.

if you climb into your car, turn the key and the car refuses to start, is that a violation of your free will? if it turns out that the car refuses to start because someone swiped the battery, i would consider that a catalyst for learn/teaching rather than a violation of free will. one might assume that it's appropriate for higher intelligences to act as catalysts for learn/teaching and that to do so, is not a violation of free will.

at least, that's how i would interpret the powering down of nukes. it's a catalyst for those folks who consider themselves so powerful that they can order the destruction of entire cities. <smile>

dfs

[billybobbutterball]

hi dfs

must agree with you on points you bring out concerning "free" will.
the intellectual problem is that everyone assumes that they have "it" but have difficulty
describing what "it" actually consists of beyond some overly simplistic "givens".

for those pondering such there is a thread on 'free will' -- located in the law of one --
that explores this slippery subject in some greater detail.:cool:

best, bbb:)