How has your Father Affected your Perception? [Archive]

Kenneths149

10-02-2007, 11:05 AM

i suspect that there will be much criticism for sticking one's neck out as david does. i so admire and appreciate and support him . it dangerous when people say they support you and then stab your back.. it goes beyond the personal to pricinciples. we will always know who is focusing on personaility and who is getting the ideas by watching who gets the principle and who does not.

ideas are more important than personalities and there is certainly an incredible amount of ideas coming through david. ideas that are supported and have the backing of research. it is unfortuante that the emotions can color my understanding.( pun on ray work theory) . i am grateful that there is this medium the computer to learn and be involved by the internet. i don't have to live near david to learn his ideas,listen and participate. what an incredible opportunity to meet others and grow together. great we have you tube and the net ! a friend of mine has critters that have scratched her screen window and left a hole. she is finely tuned to her creatures all around her home. i believe they were telling her something important . i believe they were telling her that the screen or net would receive a hole, damage and that it would affect allot of us. so i will pray that the hole is not too lasting. and that it can be repaired. crictisim can be like making holes in the screen.

charles obscure

10-02-2007, 12:10 PM

there will always be those opposed to anything, i think the key is to stand firm with that which resonates to the inner self as truth. then to embody this truth and become it despite any outer circumstances. for myself the teachings of ra, edgar cayce, and david wilcock, all resonate with this truth. i have no doubt david is who he claims to be, and is one of the few really enlightened masters ive come across.

it is also spoken that the adept is one who moves away more and more from the thoughts, opinions, and constraints of other selves. so i believe finding such disbelief, and or disdain in others opinions is often a sign we are actually on the right path. (as long as one balances such faith and will with a humble and open mind.)

there is a saying this makes me think of in the tao teh ching:

"the best students, learning of the tao, set to work earnestly to practice the way.

mediocre students now cherish it, now let it go.

the worst students mock at it. were it not thus mocked, it would be unworthy to be tao."

Ewhaz

10-02-2007, 01:01 PM

no matter what, you will always doubt something that is happening outside yourself. until you get an intimate understanding of it, it doesn't become real.

all truth is subjective. davids truth isn't your truth because you haven't experienced what david has. that doesn't make it any less real or true, it just means that your truth is different than his right now. that doesn't mean you have to believe what he says either. perhaps you doubt because your path isn't involved in being here on these forums. perhaps it means you being told your meant to be someplace else.

proof is experience. when people say you need to appreciate things in order to attract more of it.. i really didn't get it. i didn't get it until one day i sat down, meditated quietly for a while and found that i could feel how the feelings of appreciation seemed to be a drawing force. i felt that, it became my truth. until that point it was only knowledge.

even i doubt the validity of what david says and what he does, but simply because i don't have the empirical proof of experience. however his knowledge has a lot of practical application in my spiritual development so here i am.

billybobbutterball

10-02-2007, 04:40 PM

i was watching some of the videos of david wilcock on youtube and some people left some interesting comments. not to be quoted, but some people do not believe he is the reincarnation of edgar cayce. on top of that they believe his theory of 2012 is one of the many which is very true. i guess some people don't believe in this cosmic conciousness that is argubaly suppose to happen. that left me wondering why i believe in it so much? maybe because it resonated with me or maybe i am vulnerable because of the difficulty in life. which would make me believe anything that made me more spiritual. i wish more proof was available or i could experience something that would make me believe full proof, but nothing is full proof maybe that is a part of the experience. i guess sooner or later we will find out, i'll be very honest, i can't wait

hi. understanding

i wrote out a convoluted treatise only to lose it. guess it was meant to be.i got carried away. but i still get ticked when such happens...my wonderful prose... oh! the humanity! (... as the shocked radio broadcaster exclaimed repeatably when the hindenburg exploded and crashed )

you are right. there is no such thing as absolute proof. that would go against the law of confusion -- which is designed to protect free will. neither ra nor david claim to be infallible.

and then there is this problem: "a man convinced against his will is of that same opinion still."

hang in there...remember the old songlet, "don't worry, be happy" :p if you can't manage that, well, be patient, be content. take long nature walks. hug a tree. kick a...whoops! make that, "caress a noxious weed"

billybob the butterball guy.

MarkM

10-02-2007, 07:00 PM

billybobbutterball

10-03-2007, 03:34 PM

billybobbusterballs, i have grown to look forward to your somewhat irreverent posts!

i am soon to meet my girlfriend's (of three years) champion christian fundamentalist father who is reputed to be a fearful,towering presense in his wide, wide circles, and who may be making it his mission to save his only daughter from her boyfriend's heathenistic, irreverent influence! (he, apparently knowing me by reputation only, this alone puts me at a disadvantage!)

your presence would be that which i can only say would be that most desirable, having sussed up your journey so far to the far shores of guilt-free spiritual living!

as the canadian dollar is now measuring $1.01 to yours, i'll contribute my entire commision for last week (twenty-one dollars and fifty-one cents...canadian!) to your airfare, if you can get here by tomorrow nite to lend me moral support, and i'll buy the root beer.

if you somehow can't make it, keep me in your thoughts (and feelings) anyways.

shivering in my timbers, mark

hi, mark

thanks ol' buddy. hey, i don't mind being somewhat irreverent as long as i'm not irrelevant!

about your coming meeting with this four-square fundemantalist ... run, do not walk to the nearest escape hatch! i'm scared to be with you even in thought! (is this girl worth dying for?)

i'm afraid it is a situation of, "abandon hope all ye who enter here".

but maybe i'm imagining the worst case scenario.

no. it will be horrible.

what can you say? being the pro-active father of his precious daughter he will certainly probe your religious convictions.

perhaps your best bet is to beat him to the draw and ask him about his religious convictions --after all, he is the expert -- keep reminding yourself, and tell him, that you are interested and open to learning the truth. all you know is that somehow jesus died to save all or many or some or only the elect. he will have a strong doctrinal opinion on one or the other of the above options. that will give you some clues on treading through the mine field.

this formidable pillar of the faith might just come right out and demand to know if you believe jesus is god. it could be all over right then and there if you fail to hem and haw with just the right reverance. tell him that this is a very profound question and that the idea of the trinity confuses you (hell, it took the church several hundred years to pound out and fashion the doctrine of the trinity -- you have good reason to be confused!) he might soften a bit and explain how a single egg has a shell, the white, along with the yellow yolk stuff...or perhaps he might use the idea of water, steam and ice, etc. nod your head and tell him, "yes, that makes sense."

keep in mind that the accounts of jesus are rather schizoid... there is the galalian jesus, who loved everyone --especially children, and then on the other hand we find the rather scary, jerusalem jesus -- who is coming back as the lion of judah to wrack vengeance on disbelievers and bad-doers. your girl friend's father will lean to one view or the other... in your special interaction pray that he favors the gentle jesus! (if he is carrying a bible like a six-gun on his hip, all bets are off!)

in case you get tempted to be carried away and attempt to discuss your point of view, keep in mind these warning points:

according to the holy scriptures prophets must be 100% accurate...if not then they are revealed as false prophets and deserve immediate death. in the book of acts a city obeyed admonitions against occult practices by having a "book" burning of forbidden material amounting to some 50 talents or so of silver. (50 talents? pieces? my memory ain't all that good) so, for goodness sake don't mention cayce, david, etc., or especially your vast, personal, unburned library you would invite him to read.

well, mark, maybe this formidable personage will recognize your spiritual goodness shining forth and will be tempered! i hope she is worth it! and, hey! does she have a hidden agenda to come out of the faith closet and "save" you once the two of you are safely hitched?? keep in mind that she may still be "daddy's girl"

best, billybob, my prayers go wit ya.:)

Ewhaz

10-04-2007, 01:47 AM

<------- ex christian here..

my two cents on the fundamentalist attitude.. you would do well to simply skirt the issue in the following ways.

there are a few things christians will hold to, one of which is free will.. ie the freedom choose salvation or turn it down. state simply that it is your choice and you have already made it, knowing well the consequences of such.

the other thing is to be respectful. his faith is his faith and he has it for a reason. there are a ton of things i learned in my time as a christian, and every bit of it was absolutely necessary. never doubt some one's faith, or the necessity of it. as ra stated, we have these distortions for a reason.

if he asks to pray for you, allow him to do it but simply ask that it be the prayer 'thy will be done' without his own idea of what must be done put in there. he should respect that.

the distortion of christianity is quite simply this, the bible is the truth given or inspired by god. in that bible, the faith becomes pretty water tight. anything outside of that book will be a hard sell (christians are given many warnings about misleading messages and other 'truths' and other ways outside of the bible). they are taught to doubt anything not inspired by the book itself and or its message. unless they have a subjective experience that shows them otherwise, this will be their truth.

arguing truth with them will get you nowhere arguing freedom of choice is a better stance to get them to leave you alone. as a good non christian friend of mine said, 'my salvation is between me and god' . weather it seems like it or not, they are trying to convert you with the best of intentions, either that of following god's will, or trying to save you from damnation. if he persists, just be stern but respectful and simply state that you have made your choice and you don't want to hear any more. he should to respect that.

it took me a huge leap of faith to leave that distortion, it wasn't easy and it was pretty frightening as well. love them and their journey, love yourself and your journey and rejoice at the diversity of it all.

good luck.

Kenneths149

10-04-2007, 06:31 AM

the true reality of evangelical christianity is that they do not live and let live.the obcession to control another by faith means is very rampant and often disguised.
yes tell the truth. we do have religious freedom"! yes, be silent. yes avoid the deal and if this is meant to be the one " convert ". there will never be peace in a divided house. there is a time for every thing under the sun, even overbearing fathers who protect thier little girsl and wan t nothing but he best. after all she will have chilfren ad he wants a relationship with them a life time of joy , sharing and happines. can you committ to that? i t is anothers joy, beyond the moment of one life time and invovling many others grand children and families.

billybobbutterball

10-04-2007, 03:10 PM

[quote=ewhaz;24008]<------- ex christian here..

my two cents on the fundamentalist attitude.. you would do well to simply skirt the issue in the following ways.

there are a few things christians will hold to, one of which is free will.. ie the freedom choose salvation or turn it down. state simply that it is your choice and you have already made it, knowing well the consequences of such.

####

hi, mark, billybob here

well, you got a ton of good advice...except for perhaps that bit about "converting" in order to accomodate the situation; that seemingly expedient choice would most likely see an eventual domestic disaster.

while i was composing my previous somewhat tongue-in-cheek response, images of various rigid, true-believer personalities i have encountered in the past came to mind. they were/are rather extreme examples. perhaps your girl's father will turn out to be a virtual pussy/tom cat in comparison and not a typical anti-intellectualist.

incidentally, the common denominator of christian sects is not to be found in agreement concerning the "freedom" of the will -- that thorny question is the heart of a theological battle waging for centuries. (there is much discussion stuff concerning the nature of the "will" to be found in the dc archives)

for "fundamentalist" sects the point of agreement will be found in the absolutely inviolable nature of the holy bible ... any arguments over that sensitive point will result in no prisoner's being taken!

now, mark, you must promise that you will tell us all about how it comes out ... inquiring minds need to know!

my loving concern to you, your girl, and her well-meaning father!

billious g

twva

10-04-2007, 07:08 PM

now, mark, you must promise that you will tell us all about how it comes out ... inquiring minds need to know!
i was just thinking the same thing.

my loving concern to you, your girl, and her well-meaning father!
amen.

mark,

judging from the sensibleness and good humor of your posts, i'm sure you're going to be fine and i don't think you really need any advice, though you have gotten some good stuff.

even though you don't need it, your post got me thinking about things i try to remember when in a a difficult situation, or even before it when thinking about what might happen. for what it's worth, here are some ideas:
picture light rising from the earth up my spine, through each energy center and out my crown back to the creator.
envision light flowing from my heart to the heart of the one i'm going to be dealing with or am dealing with and back again.
use a switchword like "together", "divine order", or any other personally meaningful phrase. for some reason, i often find myself repeating the benediction that the minister used at the church my family attended when i was a child: "go in peace, remember the poor, and love one another."
basically, i try to use any trick i can to stay grounded and open in green and blue ray even if the other person is trying to take the conversation in what seems to be an unhelpful direction.

also, just pausing before speaking can be very helpful.

good luck!

oops -- just re-read your post. your meeting was last night. hope it went well!

Kris

10-05-2007, 12:02 PM

so they still haven't met and i don't think i'm ready. here's why.

i recently called my father to ask him about the "unpardonable sin" after reading a post on the forum. i knew he would know exactly the book, chapter and verse. he gave me three quotes immediately, which i researched further on the internet. he, of course, wanted to know why i was interested and i told him mark and i were discussing it.

that was a couple of weeks ago. generally speaking, we talk once every three months by phone. (that, in itself, took many, many years, since he told me when i was 17 that he wished i would die so that i might still have a chance of getting into heaven).

he called me two days ago (the day mark posted) and started questioning me about my "boyfriend". (truth be told, i'm not even sure he knows his name). he asked me why we were discussing the unpardonable sin. he asked me what church mark was affiliated with (none); what religion he was (his own); had he read the bible. yes, i proudly answered, i'm sure he's read the bible. he said he'd like to talk to him!

i somewhat relunctantly said well, why don't you come over for dinner and meet him and you can talk. (i have run this crazy idea past mark on prior occassions and i knew he was up for the challenge, but was i). my dad said i lived too far away (about a 40 minute drive) and that he would be happy to speak with mark on the phone. so obviously his sole purpose of speaking to mark was to preach his narrow-minded, uncompromising point of view and not to meet the wonderful person that he is, or for that matter, see his daughter, and his granddaughters.

billybobbutterbabe - you had it right. he "carries a bible like a six gun on his hip". even after 50 years in canada his german accent sounds like he never left (which further intimidates me for some reason) and he has always been able to invoke fear in me - more so than the god i was supposed to be fearing.

my fear at the present time (and i know i should not fear anything) is that if my dad questions mark and mark answers honestly (like i know he will) my dad will have his entire congregation praying for my salvation (if he doesn't already).

i believe in the power of prayer and meditation, especially when done in a group. david told of a group of 7000 people who meditated in israel for world peace, and terrorism etc. was reduced at that time by something like 73%. that's mind boggling.

so, i'm afraid of what my dad can do to me through group prayer.

i know that i have awakened. i truly believe in the law of one - that all is one. i am on my second read of the loo study guide. i love reading q'uo. i love this forum. it has been very helpful to me. i know mark and many of you say to ask your higher self for guidance and to look within yourself for the answers - and i do. i just feel that at the present moment i am blocked from being able to progress and grow.

i have made some progress in trying to meditate but then negative thoughts creep in and i can't focus. it bothers me immensely that i feel blocked. i don't understand why. it's very frustrating. i have read all kinds of stuff on how to meditate and how to unblock your chakra's etc., but i guess i just need to keep trying and perhaps lose the fear that my father is capable of impeding my progress.

i guess my point is that i don't need anything working against me - like my father. maybe if i knew that there were some positive thoughts and energy coming my way from the forum members it would help.

just writing all this has helped.:)

so be sure inquiring minds that when i am ready for my father and mark to meet, i will let him tell the tale and i'm sure it will be a good one. he really has no idea what he is in for!:eek:

kris

billybobbutterball

10-05-2007, 05:23 PM

so they still haven't met and i don't think i'm ready. here's why.

[snip]

my fear at the present time (and i know i should not fear anything) is that if my dad questions mark and mark answers honestly (like i know he will) my dad will have his entire congregation praying for my salvation (if he doesn't already).

i believe in the power of prayer and meditation, especially when done in a group. david told of a group of 7000 people who meditated in israel for world peace, and terrorism etc. was reduced at that time by something like 73%. that's mind boggling.

so, i'm afraid of what my dad can do to me through group prayer.

i know that i have awakened. i truly believe in the law of one - that all is one. i am on my second read of the loo study guide. i love reading q'uo. i love this forum. it has been very helpful to me. i know mark and many of you say to ask your higher self for guidance and to look within yourself for the answers - and i do. i just feel that at the present moment i am blocked from being able to progress and grow.

i have made some progress in trying to meditate but then negative thoughts creep in and i can't focus. it bothers me immensely that i feel blocked. i don't understand why. it's very frustrating. i have read all kinds of stuff on how to meditate and how to unblock your chakra's etc., but i guess i just need to keep trying and perhaps lose the fear that my father is capable of impeding my progress.

i guess my point is that i don't need anything working against me - like my father. maybe if i knew that there were some positive thoughts and energy coming my way from the forum members it would help.

just writing all this has helped.:)

so be sure inquiring minds that when i am ready for my father and mark to meet, i will let him tell the tale and i'm sure it will be a good one. he really has no idea what he is in for!:eek:

kris

hi, kris.

thanks so much for the update ... your predicament has been much on my mind.

here is my take on it. a telephone conversation just won't do! it has to be face to face -- (with a rather largish table in between!)

a person such as your father is at his exhalted "best" in dealing with other sects who, as he most likely does, "believe" in the literal truth of the holy scriptures.

since mark is not such a "bible believer" your father can't use his carefully honed, irresistible scriptural interpretations against mark's shaky, inferior dogma -- you see, there would then be no common ground of agreement concerning the bible to support a meaningful theological argument ... in this special case your dad's six-shooter bible turns out to be loaded with nothing but noisy blanks.:p the only alternative he has is to fall back on secular logic to then build a case supporting the bible.

kris, please don't be spooked by thoughts of prayers directed for your "salvation" thank him and his congregation for the spiritual help. assume that this fothcoming energy will be heartfelt and meant to help you to, well, "come into the knowledge of the truth". such prayer is not of the type that can "brainwash" you against your convictions --use the good aspects of the energy boost for the good!

being at one time a vigorous defender of the faith i'm naturally curious about your father's denomination. please inquire about his organization. (even if one claims to be non-denominational they still fall into a particular descriptive grouping) you might ask him if he is a calvinist or an arminian. that should get a reaction!

since all that would be getting away from the law of one you could drop me a private message at my personal info spot.

concerning the loo. the concept that all would be resolved by the one creator hit me right in the sweet spot. the idea of no-hope-hell and eternal damnation for even trivialities applied to the vast majority of the human race -- past present and future -- essentially makes classical christianity a virtual documant of horror, not hope.

i guess the whole idea of the three of you ever getting along smoothly in this incarnation is rather slim. arranging a confrontation is controversial... but, except for the fact that i was once confronted, i'd still be in much the same mind-set as your father... heck, we could be going out together picketing atheist conventions. (yeah, i did that ... even including a "newage conference :o )

my best wishes --which amount to a prayer -- to you and mark, etc.

bill gieskieng aka billybobtheologia

ps

contemplate this: meditations seldom run smoothly -- maybe they aren't supposed to?

Kenneths149

10-05-2007, 10:37 PM

i spoke to two men about the divinecosmos,com site and the videos. i am so impressed with the videos . both men were interested. one spoke spanish from colombia. pablo and i want him to stay in toronto and then dr. mcdermitt was interested in the theory of planetary warming. i am so excited about these ideas and that others can listen to the ideas and see david talk . he is amazing to watch as a teacher. i am thrilled to see him on line and the cast audinces that can be reached this way . far better than tv and also that david can say what he needs to say. there is more to come i am sure and we must support this effort as i think the " convergence movie will have a greater impact on the internet; perhaps creating a phenomenon unheard of in the spread of ideas to all countries, cultures and languages. it is of gobal porportions the task and as such it needs that much more support from those small gifts that made all the great tv evangelsit succeed. step up mi hermanos y hermanas. mes amis, we need you all to advance the prep work. even if we pray for the messenger that will be "good enough" ( forgive the teacher in me even though i am retired i still love an audience)

Kenneths149

10-05-2007, 11:45 PM

i feared my fahter . he was arrogant, confident and a formidable military man ( a coronel). i want to say a real mean foe! in truth i had created the monster and fed that monster in my mind and heart. it was my way of not having to love and accpet him or myself for who we are father and son
( mirrors!) to me in that past mode he was a terrifying dictator who i allowed to intimidate me. i never spoke my mind or told him the truth! boy did i create my work for my self. he called me a" jack ass in the last two weeks " because i carry burdens that are not my own" he is correct even if a jack ass is derrogatory. i am the son of a jack ass.
i see how sticky an dicky is the space that you find your self with such a formidable german father . he sounds horrifying, i am sure he is as stubborn as a "jack ass" . i would agree with the wisdom of staying clear away from some one who can cast such a paul over your life . you are powerless over him and his ideas. feed him love ( at a distance, he sounds toxic in person). live and let live get on with your life. focus on as best as you can on your well being .i seem stuck on that one area too!! i have been depressed for 27 years becasue i hung unto self hatred , judging myself as not being good enough! and anger agasinst my father and myself )
easy to say "get over it" but much more difficult to do. i suffer from alcoholism and the disease was so toxic at home destroying our family life and any hope for a happy future for either my sisters and myself. we all became fundamentalist christian . go fiquer!all of us are extremist! even in my attempt to keep an open mind i am walking a fine tight rope . so live and let live ... hum . my dad's few words of personal wisdom ( pearls) i cherish. he says" keep your nose out of trouble" best advice going! " and to overcome those blocks just think about it . how improtnat is it ? give it all the " time you need" you set the agenda no forcing of solutions . the minute we set a solution in motion we are forcing and then we facing the consequences what ever they may be usually disasters.thsank you fo ryour candor and honesty. i too had an overbearing zealous motherin law to be that believed i had to force my salvation message on every stranger i met! it was my christian duty to be a soul winner! try living that in a catholic high school as the art , chaplain teacher?1yah it was a challenge i came under scrutiny often.

MarkM

10-07-2007, 06:20 PM

[quote=billybobbutterball;24052] arranging a confrontation is controversial... but, except for the fact that i was once confronted, i'd still be in much the same mind-set as your father...

thank you for your good wishes, bill.

i don't have to say that this is a very delicate issue.

this is a personal issue, but one that will resonate with the experiences of many.

i sense, kris, that there is a climactic moment of self-realization afoot for you, here, in regards to the issues surrounding your childhood experiences with your father.

if and when the three of us ever meet for dinner, i certainly won't be looking for a confrontation of any sort, as this would be in exception to the law of free will, in that your father's path is his rightful path, and represents his own chosen course of becoming. i certainly would not wish for the theology to go beyond deviled eggs, angel-food cake, and 'heavenly hash' ice cream.

there can never be a showdown between christian fundamentalism and the law of one, as the law of one is about unconditional acceptance of the paths of all.

in such a meeting, i would hope to only ground myself in and transmit unconditional love, acceptance and freedom from spiritually-based fear. (thanks for your advice, tw) who knows, maybe some of this will rub off on him!

please, also know that your father's intentions are good, and even if he were to pray with all the 7000 in israel to affect you in any way whatsoever, it would be impossible for this to happen against your will! his/their intent would have to be filtered through the matrix of your own higher self, allowing through only a pure-love energy stripped down of anything that was not in line with your own personal acceptance. you are so totally the boss of you!

kris, spiritual progress can be blocked only by the contents of your own 'shadow self', which contains all your perceived un-resolved dark and negative thoughts, emotions, guilt issues, fears, desires and trespasses done by you and against you.

much like someone who transcribes an interview, for example, and returns again and again to edit and correct the typos, and smooth out the distortions as much as one can, you can search through your life for issues to revisit with love, acceptance, forgiveness and gratitude.

be aware, also, that you can come to recognize when your higher self will provide you with opportunities to revisit these issues, because it always will!

many christians and others are burdened by fear. fear of damnation, for example, can stall one's progress for eons.

take for example, the concept of the 'unpardonable', or 'original sin'. this could represent for many a mis-apprehension of the 'original wound', wherein all of us can trace our shadow issues ultimately to our perceived separation from 'god' and our resultant sense of abandonment. (search 'david's blog' for more on the 'original wound')

i don't believe there is any such thing as the original sin.

i believe we are all free to live according to our own free will, and that the creator has infinite patience to allow us as much time as necessary to get where we're going. from this it follows that one needn't have any fear at all of having done the wrong things in life, as there's no such thing as having done the wrong things in life!

all is experiencing, becoming, forgiving and learning to love all living beings as one's own self. there are opportunities for growth in every experience; indeed, that is why there is such a thing as experience!

-mark

Chris Hamilton

08-07-2009, 10:46 AM

i brought this thread back up after a long hiatus because i happened to come across it and thought it so interesting how our fathers can affect us so much.

my father just didn't care and wasn't around much, before or after my parents divorced when i was sixteen. i spent the next twenty-five years trying to get him to just give me a hug and say he loved me without wanting me to do what he wanted or thought i should be doing. it wasn't until he died that i was able to analyze it and see him for who he really was, and then i understood he was just a scared kid who was brought up by another father who ignored him too (i loved my grandfather but apparently there was trouble between those two that affected what my dad did in his life). he just didn't know how to love, so shut himself off from the possibility.

father's, as david has said in his blogs, is our first experience with god. pleasing who we think is omnipotent in our little eyes is so important and we try to get that love from them that says we are ok, we are wonderful. there is no way for the grown-up to resolve with a father who ignores love and free will for dogma, a man-made item to be sure.

if your dad is still alive, all of you, stop trying to make them love you and see them for who they are. love them despite their clumsy walk thru life and treat them like a fallible human being like we all are. they are not god, they are just a part of the whole as you are, so see them as human and equal so you can love what is good about them. if your attitude changes, it may not change them, but it will sure help you;) chris

Greywolf69

08-16-2009, 07:01 PM

im not sure if this was ever posted here before, but i had found a video with buckminster fuller that was done back in 1974. some pretty good stuff (i feel). hope you all enjoy. =)

info - a one hour conversations with renowned "comprehensivist" polymath buckminter fuller at his "world game" offices in philadelphia. much time is given to asserting his "synergetic" major premise that in terms of mankinds collective technological augmented advancement through time we had reached a point - in terms of our collective capabliity to provvide "life suport" to the people of "spaceship earth" - within a correct assumption there were more "haves" than "have nots" for the first time in human history and that by utilizing "anticapatory design scince" we could beginning serious modeiling the premise we had transcended material scarcity and we had reached that "critical point" in the year 1970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hytq_-rpauo

Matthew Clark

08-18-2009, 11:31 AM

hiya chris,

thanks for reigniting this post and also for sharing your story. i must commend you for your analysis and realisation of the fact "he was just a scared kid himself". a very heart warming conclusion from you with no ill feelings towards him and as the law of one states, an acceptance of everyones path.

i never really knew my dad as my mum left him when i was about 3. according to her, he was an abusive alcoholic who took great pleasure in "knocking" her into next week. oddly, i do not remember having any "conditioned" hate towards him,(although i believe mum tried hard!) but i do remember growing up with a feeling of not being complete - if that makes sense. she re-married another 3 times and i took the surname of the first 2 after her divorce from my dad. (its funny because even writing "my dad" feels weird!).

my third step father hated my with a passion and that is what caused me most of my problems in later life - throughout my twenties and thirties. back in 1997, i was very "low" (she divorced him around that time) especially as in many ways i wanted to re-connect with my biological dad. this i knew would hurt my mum (and i was not conditioned?!) so i sat down and decided to clear my thoughts and let the pen do the writing.

what came through was a sort of poem which allowed me to let it all out. from that point i felt better and decided to not strike up a relationship with my dad. i did not want to hurt mum, although sort of at the expense of my own feelings. i have not shared that poem with anyone for 12 years and i feel like posting it on this site somewhere but i do not quite know which thread to post it on.

fast forward to now and through my own spiritual journey, i have totally forgiven all those who hurt, betrayed and abandoned me. i actually thank them for the life lessons they taught me - although it took years to get there. i have spoken to my dad only about 3 times in 10 years and each time he says "i love you son". those words are enough - growing up without him was hard but his declaration of his love to me made all those crappy years worth it. i love you too dad!

with love and light to you all,

matt

Chris Hamilton

08-18-2009, 07:53 PM

putting this thread into a proper topic ;) chris

FooSnik

08-18-2009, 11:48 PM

ok so. i have really appreciated everyone's honesty and sharing here.

my father not only neglected me but provided me with a real bad way to go about life.

so i spent years breaking bad habits installed in me as a child.

and it was so hard.

but also i really got to understand ppl's pain. and the who's, what's, when's, and how's of it. so now i have the weapons i need to really help out around here.

so now i am proud of myself for mostly making it through it. and i aim at trying to break this illusion ppl live in just like i lived for so long.

chain reaction of light, wisdom and love.

and finally.....

i say a little prayer to my dad for teaching me these lessons.

he is forgiven.

Kenneths149

08-21-2009, 08:05 PM

i continue to grow in understanding my father and myself.my dad is not a well man his alcoholism, masked a deeper problem. he is an undiagnosed manic depressive. i say that as one who is diagnozed and chooses to take medication under the supervision of my doctor. dad is a high functioning alcoholic. i lameneted recently that his alcoholism could have affected my life so deeply. it was more than one disease in operation the alcoholism only the tip of the iceberg. my grandfather ( his father ) molested his daughters and grand children. the family incest was carried out by my father with his daughter.i wasrepeatedly sexually abused by my 3 uncles, two died of aids and one who was married.
i would not blame some one for having cancer which my mother died of at a young age yet it has been so difficult to understand or accept the role of mental illness , family dysfunction and alcoholism. i dreamt recently that i curse my self. i tried to think of who did curse me . unconsciously my father cursed me and i began to do it to myself. he did not want a gay son. he blamed my mother for this. they argued over what she did to me? they both thought the military would make me a man! i had no idea what was wrong but began to think i was not okay. i began to curse myself....i began to judge who i am and i was wrong i was not okay a curse!coming out of the closet was very difficult being an oral roberts university graduate and a prospective catholic priest.
today i have a good phone relationship with my father . he is 85 suffering from alcohol dementia and pancriatitis and as my step mother euphemizes alzhiemer. my dad still knows who we are for the last 10 years . my doctor says this is not alzhiemer.
i am grateful he is around perhaps he will be here for the events of 20 12 . however i believe that my dad and i have fullfilled our contract which was to porvide me with the opportunity to know how devasting abandoment is , how destructive alcoholism is , how damaging is self aggrandizement and how illness can cause us to be mean and unkind to our loved ones. yes thank you dad for letting me know what i did unknowing to you and to myself. awareness has pain, growth and freedom to move forward to more awareness of loving opportunity even if it appears dreadful to th e observer the work is profoundly healing though painful. .

Deerclan

08-24-2009, 09:27 AM

hiya chris,
fast forward to now and through my own spiritual journey, i have totally forgiven all those who hurt, betrayed and abandoned me. i actually thank them for the life lessons they taught me - although it took years to get there. i have spoken to my dad only about 3 times in 10 years and each time he says "i love you son". those words are enough - growing up without him was hard but his declaration of his love to me made all those crappy years worth it. i love you too dad!
matt

matt, i really like what you wrote here. in two months, my own father will have been gone from the planet 30 years, so most of what i have to say about him is a retrospective. needless to say, he does not look so terrifying from this perspective - although he was a holy terror (i mean literally, since he was a preacher, and he could dispense heaven or hell from the pulpit with equal ease).

i had a conversation with my mother a couple of days ago, in which she repeated something she has said often -- she wished she had been a better mother. i explained to her first that she was a product of her wwii generation. her generation wore a collective suit of emotional armor to protect themselves from the horrors of that war, even long after the war had ended. i assured her she did the best that she could, and that no one can ask more than that from anybody. secondly, i told her that if she and my father had not given me the challenges they did, that i would not have been able to offer anything to assist half the people i worked with as a counselor, because it was my experience working through my own challenges more than anything else that enabled me to be of service to others.

i'll put it like this. my studies of mythology tell me that the primal fear of mother and father are the ultimate challenges that prepare a human being to be a hero-ine, which i see as a person who actively lives facing "what is," and choosing to confront "what is" with courage rather than with fear. primal fears of one's parents tend to show up in myths in the form of giants (fathers) and sea monsters (mothers). once a potential hero slays the giant or the sea serpent, then s/he is ready to go on the quest to find the inner joy, the inner child, one's own true richness. ever dream about finding a treasure? that indicates that you are discovering your own inner deepest, most beautiful self. by then, you have worked through the various layers of your thoughts and emotional patterns, and discovered that while they are a part of you, they are not "you." now i ask you - what would be the joy of going on a fun treasure hunt, if there were not challenges to overcome?

that brings me back to my point about my own father. as i have had the opportunity to think about him, and myself, over the past almost-30 years, i have increasingly realized that the horses' hind end he could often be was his challenge to work through - and he did so, with great courage and perseverance. his physical death was the catalyst that enabled me to see it. there is little doubt in my mind that if he were still here, i would be still continuing to struggle through my images of him. the further i go in my own thinking, my writing, etc., the more i see that i really learned from him, and the knowledge & understanding i have now came from standing on the shoulders of giants. in the old stories, david cut off the head of golaith - symbolizing separating the father's thinking process from physical reality. in norse myths, odin, vili, and ve slew the giant who was their ancestor, and formed the earth from his body. we all do that. we are all david, and we are all odin, vili, and ve -- and we will not become "kings" or "gods" (however one wishes to metaphorize it) until we have broken to pieces the inner image we carry inside ourselves of our own fathers. conflict with your human father is an open invitation to begin that phase of the hero's journey and start becoming who you really are. a tyrannical father who terrorizes you will eventually catapult you further along the path of inner growth than the nice old fellow who tells you how great you are -- at least that's what i tell myself now! if i can follow that path, so can anyone. it's a matter of putting one foot in front of the other and learning to ignore than pain and discomfort of the hero's journey. you'll make it. and, it's a very nice view from the top of that mountain.

i add my thanks to those who appreciate the mod for resurrecting this topic.

-- deerclan

Matthew Clark

08-30-2009, 01:23 PM

hi deerclan,

thank you for that nice post.

you'll make it. and, it's a very nice view from the top of that mountain.

i feel i have already made it - and you are right about the view - its great!

catch you soon my friend,

matt

MarkM

10-10-2009, 10:32 PM

dad, i came into this world with a highly developed intuitive faculty. i have had experiences of a subjective and inner nature which long ago proved to me personally that my existance goes beyond this body, both in time and space. the world is full of millions of people who have an inner knowing and experiencing of something spiritual in scope, and yet are alike in the sense that they are pretty much unable to communicate these things to those loved ones who are still fully immersed within the matrix... so to speak.

when i send you stuff, it is with the hope of sparking some flicker of recognition of something other than mundanity. one thing i know is that there is no absolute proof of anything metaphysical in the offing. i personally know extremely gifted psychics who are able to demonstrate incredible proof of their abilities to me and others who are already able to discern some stuff, yet have learned that when their abilities are put under the focused glare of those who wish to establish clinical proof, find that their abilities mysteriously evaporate.

edgar cayce once said something to the effect that a person's free will to experience beneath the 'veil of confusion' (this being a primary law of life here on earth) guarantees that outer proofs are a very singular and personal thing, available only to those who have discovered somewhat of their own intuitive faculties.

i know a lady whom i visited a couple of years ago, on the advice of a friend who had seen her at a psychic fair. this woman knew nothing of me, and was conducting a meditation circle in richmond hill. nan had passed soon before, and as this woman was telling us of her view that we all are subject to protection of spirit guides, i wondered to myself if i've been visited by nan in some way. at the very same moment, she spun on her heel, pointed right at me and told me, "yes, nan has been to visit, and sends love and assurance that she's ok." i've seen her do this with sufficient redundancy with others in the circle to demonstrate to me that this is not a case of someone who is an astute reader of a person's character, telling people what they want to hear.

yet, no person has ever been able to establish their psychic proficiency to any final, undeniable extent in the laboratory of mainstream review, beyond critical reproach.

so, attempts to demonstrate something of these things in the manner of 'proof' remain something very interesting to me, yet those things which strike me as being somewhat evocative of evidence seem to be in some necessary way enshrouded in such 'pseudo-scientific' plausible deniability that anyone of some good measure of intellectual rigour can easily and resolutely pick apart the 'science' which does not in any way stand up to such scrutiny. i am excruciatingly aware of the flaws which can be picked out in such offerings from an intellectual standpoint, rest assured!! i'm like you in that i can spot faulty science from a mile away. but there's more to it than that.

things can resonate in a way which defines for me a sane way of approaching my inner knowing, assimilating the undeniable evidence which i have repeatedly witnessed and tried to reconcile with my intellect. there can be no merging marriage of the pure intellect and the pure intuitive. each needs to give way to the other, or you have the twin spectres of both scientific and religious fundamentalism.

one thing i have learned is that those who don't wish to let go of the comfortable shores of material and rational worldview are perfectly safe and rightfully where they belong in their sojourn thru this stage of evolution. you can't demonstrate that which is transgressing of someone's rightful place.

so, when i send you this stuff, i'm hoping that you may on your own see something which sparks a sense of wonder and 'what if?' and perhaps get past the rigours of scrutiny which will always render every phenomenon explainable in nuts and bolts and materialistic terms. that is the beauty of life, the mundanity of life can be enforced forever - until one gives way to the intuitive, and allows scientific rigour to finally allow itself to share space with the intuitive faculty. mark

Matthew Clark

10-11-2009, 01:30 AM

hi mark,

may i say i found your letter to your dad very touching and beautifully put together.

you put your point across so eloquenlty with heartfelt passion.

indeed, i do not think there is anyone on this forum who could not use the basic structure of what you are saying to anyone and everyone they come across, if you know what i am trying to say.

i guess if you were to de-personalise it, it is actually a message to all of humanity, gently steering them to take a look at the reality of this set up and enjoy what it is all about.

i pray your dad will dip his toe in the water at the very least.

regarding edgar cayce, i am constantly astounded how very few people have even heard of him. he was/is the greatest pyschic this world has seen and his "gifts" gave so much to mankind. sadly, i feel our controlled media would never allow such a great man to be a household name which i feel is nothing less than he deserves.

i discovered edgar cayce a few years ago and because of his work i started my journey of truth and enlightenment. i am sure he will be better known in this lifetime as david ;)

love and light to you all,

matt

Berry Chastain

10-12-2009, 08:12 AM

my dad died a dozen years ago and it was premature as i was just beginning to understand him. i had discovered that he was a much more enlightened individual that he appeared. it was he, unbeknown to me, that set me on the pathway to awareness. many years ago, he gave me a book by [please pm for author and book name]. as i read that book, i became aware for the first time that all is not as it seems, that there is a hidden truth that has been kept from the population of the world. my dad told me to read the book with an open mind, and it was the key that actually opened my mind to higher awareness. the other book he gave me was a book on native american mysticism called [please pm]. this was a second step to discovering that life is more than this physical existance and day to day oblivion.

he put me on a search for truth which i would never have been aware of had he not given me those books. i said above that his death was premature, because i had not at that time reached the point where i had release all of the old paradigm thoughts and grown to the point where i could have dipped into the well of his wisdom.

so i must say that he was the sign post to redirect my perception of reality.