plastic surgery

[hoppppe]

hi guys

i think i brought this subject up on a diffrent post and i didnt get an answer
the reason im asking is because prior to her awakening,last year,my sister got breast implants
now my question is, 1.can someone have a bad karmic influence for doing that,being all vanity i mean,cos thats the reason i would guess?

and 2.when the harvest comes ,what effect can that trigger to her body?is it safe?should she remove them before the harvest?

and what happens to anybody that have smth inside them,metal screw in the knee for example?

thank u

[Jetamus]

i dont see how it would be bad karma to have plastic surgery.
its her body to do whatever she wants with it, and being vain comes with its own life lessons too.

not sure about the harvest thing though.

[hoppppe]

hi

thanks for the quick reply
i agree that vanity is part of the lesson,but can it have any karmic influence?
lets say im on the right path i do everything acording to loo,and then at one point i feel that i would be more comfortable with having a better nose,bigger breasts etc,i feel that my service to others would be better for both sides,me cos i feel better,more sure of myself.thus being able to properly aid others,and also the person being helped gets the best of me

does any of this even make sense?
i guess im trying to find another escuse,rather than vanity,which of course could also be the fact that u have to love urself first in order to be able to love others,and how can u love urself if u dont like urself

anyway,its late and im too tired to try and make smth out of this

what im really curious still is the 2nd question of my 1st post

thank u

[Blacksunshine]

what an interesting yet extremely valid question. i have never thought about it. i have not known many people to have had plastic surgery, espeically by choice (weird in today's world i'm sure) i have known many people tho, that in their unfortunate moments have had to have screws etc put into their bodies. i would think that something as powerful as a humanly harvest would not be conflicted by something that we lil humans do on this earth...but i cant say for sure. getting screws put in us, is definately part of a life experience, a good lesson in something. it often times grows em right up to hmmmmm i need to be more careful. or, heck, i'm not immortal. many many lessons taken in by the need of having something foreign holding our body together.

as for plastic surgery. i dont know that it will effect their position in the harvest, but i agree with another post. there are karmic experiences that take place in the current that must be dealt with....either before or after the surgery. i dont know that it would "come back to them" in another opperunity.

[Elvakiel]

i believe that it is possible to get bad karma from plastic surgery, and it is also possible to remain neutral in karma. i think it all breaks down to the reason of the surgery. if one wants to get plastic surgery only to make themselves look better than other people, i could see a slight pull of bad karma in their direction. however, if one wants plastic surgery in order to feel better about themselves i think it could actually help them to have good karma because they would be in a state of happiness and self-confidence.

to answer your second question, i do not think breast implants at all would have any affect in the humanly harvest even if they are for attracting attention towards oneself, instead of self-confidence. breast implants are something that would have such a small pull of karma that they could be compared to a small pebble being thrown into the ocean.

[billybobbutterball]

hi

whoops! must have missed this thread the first time around.

i have never thought about plastic surgery and whatever.

i would think that much rests on motivation. for instance, i've unexpectedly reached an age where i have outlived my teeth...so what does it mean spiritually to choose dentures rather than scaring cats and little children whenever i forget not to smile? i can live without chomping on sinewy things, so the choice is split between service to others and to my self image. true, when i get out of bed mornings i feel like i'm about 18...until i confront myself and truth in the mirror---then i drag through the rest of the day feeling like an old man.

and then when i was in grade school through my teens i suffered from undermining feelings of inferiority. i was the only one in the gym class who couldn't climb a rope -- or even chin myself once. it was especially embarrassing since my literary heroes' were the swinging on vines, tazan the ape man and the all-around heroic champion of the downtrodden, robin hood! and how could i ever aspire to the beautiful maid marian, or the plucky and very fit jane of the jungle? the guy was supposed to be the stronger, wasn't he?

so, like many other underdeveloped young boys who got sand kicked in their faces by beach bullies, i became fascinated by the cult of bodybuilding... i pumped away at iron, and kept pulling and pulling on a bar until my chin actually got over the top. finally out of high school, my photo appeared in the muscle magazines.

looking back i think that whole scenario of overcoming and physical self- improvement was a pre-incarnational choice. i propose that the greeks had it right, the ideal goal was a sound mind in a fit body. now i do understand that the astral dwellers laugh at a 3-d entity being preoccupied with bulging biceps, but who are they to talk...they live in a world where the barbell's in their gyms have helium filled balloons on the end rather then iron plates.(that is why they come back here to get a little resistance for exercise)

okay, so a woman feels that she is lacking something in breast size...she can't increase their size through exercise, so she choses silicon implants. how can we judge her? we can't. (i don't think it a good choice as i'm reminded of my mother's observation in her eighties "bill" she said, "a young woman's breasts are her glory, but merely an old woman's burden.)

in a way i'm right back at the beginning. once again i can't climb a rope and doing a full pull-up would be shoulder threatening. but i still pump iron, and after a workout look into the mirror, flex a bicep, and try hard to catch a fleeting glimpse of some semblance of the youthful figure which once was.

karma? basically its mostly a matter of forgetting and forgiving.

second query....keep in mind that we are borrowing a meat suit we shed it on departure...screws, scars, missing limbs, plastic inserts don't go along! in one sense a 2nd density entity has given their life to provide us with a wonderful vehicle designed for learning... we should treat it with care and respect in all matters. but always keep in mind that it is not us! we are spiritual beings. will our dead be with us "over there"? well, certainly not the original meat suits!! :d

best billybobbiceptus:rolleyes:




hi guys

i think i brought this subject up on a diffrent post and i didnt get an answer
the reason im asking is because prior to her awakening,last year,my sister got breast implants
now my question is, 1.can someone have a bad karmic influence for doing that,being all vanity i mean,cos thats the reason i would guess?

and 2.when the harvest comes ,what effect can that trigger to her body?is it safe?should she remove them before the harvest?

and what happens to anybody that have smth inside them,metal screw in the knee for example?

thank u

[Jetamus]

if plastic surgery brings you negative karma, then the same would apply to getting braces or a tattoo.

[Matthew Clark]

hi all,


i've unexpectedly reached an age where i have outlived my teeth

bbb - you kill me everytime! :d

i would like to add on the subject - where does one draw the line? breast enhancements is only one area of a hugh topic.

i have fillings (mercury) - what happens to those? do i just hope for liquified food when we reach the other side lol!

i say that we should wait and see and not put too much pressure on our souls.

a deliberate sabatage of this body may well create negative karma but there is the arguement that if it makes you more confident - what is wrong with that.

the flip side of the coin is the fact that it may be seen as service to self:rolleyes:

i guess the only thing you can say for certain is if, when we reach the stage of "harvest" (i personally dont like that phrase - it makes us sound like we are food!) a hot blooded male is involved in the selection, you may have done yourself a favour:d

now theres a thought - quick get me the yellow pages and look under cosmetic surgery!

sometimes we should just "be" and be happy with what we have got.

love and light,

matt
x

[Deerclan]

i sure hope it's not a problem, since i had a piece of screen mesh sewed in place to repair a hernia. but if folks like me & your sister have to undergo some type of "de-implanting" to make the cut, i'm perfectly willing to go with her and hold her hand. how old is she, btw, and what does she look like? [wink]

-- d.

[hoppppe]

higuys
deerclan i know u werent serious when u asked me how old she is and what she looks like. much better now anyway. she used to look like a man. she is seriously considering removing the implants if that could help her karma. what do u guys think. would it matter?
but what im actually thinking that come harvest time, she might be in serious pain or smth because in my head i have this crazy scenario of the implants being torn apart from her body as it turns to light. i dont know what im saing but i consided impropper to have an alien object inside u

i never thought about teeth filling. i have that too now that u guys are mentioning it and i also have a tooth implant, actualy more than one but thats because i didnt take care of my teeth as a child. love the sweets

so then whats to be done.

[Liam]

i personally can't see having plastic surgery as being a problem in a karmic sense. unless their decision to have the surgery somehows affects the free will of others i don't see how it would have karmic consequences. i think those who require plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons do clearly have some acceptance issues, however. surely if they are turning to surgery they are skipping the issue of accepting that body part and also the opportunity to love their body as it is.

nevertheless, a large number of young people wear braces and have surgery to straighten and perfect their teeth, and i can't really see how this is different to having plastic surgery. i do agree with what others have been saying about the motivation behind having such surgery. if the plastic surgery is for purposes of seduction then perhaps this could be considered to be service-to-self. many individuals who go through such surgery are simply seeking acceptance according to what they believe society sees as an acceptable appearance. i don't really see how this is different from correcting teeth or dying hair.

as for concerns over the harvest, these are simply alterations to the physical vehicle so i don't see any problem. many people have some kind of synthetic substance in their bodies, whether that be fillings and sealants on teeth or metal plates to repair damaged bones for example. for many this is simply unavoidable. these are alterations that many individuals need to make in order to function properly in this 3rd density existence. they are unlikely to be required in 4th density as we will probably be in a position to mould our own appearance without need for artificial substances. our bodies will be a lot healthier and more vibrant all round so i'd imagine anything that isn't necessary for our existence will be discarded.

[billybobbutterball]

hopppppe,

now please listen up close.

my opinion is that your sister had a pressing and legitimate reason for getting implants (it might be a different story if she was gilding the lily by going from a c to a double whooper d. ):eek:

i would venture she would do much more harm to herself in every way imaginable by having them taken out because of some crazy idea that she would be somehow improving her imagined "karma" ... or even worse her thinking that removing them would have any influence whatsoever on her detaching from her body when the time comes --no matter how much extra junk it might have picked up over the years. :p

look, it is no big deal, just think of the thousands who have reported near death experiences (nde) they have no problem whatsoever in slipping out of the body....or getting back into it. heck, coming and going they can pass through brick walls slick as a whistle!

do you know about nde? if not, google mellen thomas benedict to get a better idea of what is going on spirit/bodywise

now please go look into a big mirror and say out loud twenty times: "i am a spirit borrowing a physical body, i am not a body with a spirit -- and the same distinction goes for my dear sister!" ok?

next, go see your sister, calm her down, reassure her, then suggest that she best bless her implants for doing such a really good job in improving her self-image -- and that she would be better served now in setting her mind onto the really important spiritual tasks in life. :cool:

keep in mind that we need a near balance between sto and sts, not 100%sto! ( 51% sto will squeak by nicely:))


billybob




higuys
deerclan i know u werent serious when u asked me how old she is and what she looks like. much better now anyway. she used to look like a man. she is seriously considering removing the implants if that could help her karma. what do u guys think. would it matter?
but what im actually thinking that come harvest time, she might be in serious pain or smth because in my head i have this crazy scenario of the implants being torn apart from her body as it turns to light. i dont know what im saing but i consided impropper to have an alien object inside u

i never thought about teeth filling. i have that too now that u guys are mentioning it and i also have a tooth implant, actualy more than one but thats because i didnt take care of my teeth as a child. love the sweets

so then whats to be done.

[Deerclan]

next, go see your sister, calm her down, reassure her, then suggest that she best bless her implants for doing such a really good job in improving her self-image -- and that she would be better served now in setting her mind onto the really important spiritual tasks in life. :cool:
billybob

actually i agree with billybobbutterball here 110%. the only way i see it becoming a problem is by ..... well, by making it into a bigger thing that it really is ........ no pun intended. ;)

[Deerclan]

higuys
deerclan i know u werent serious when u asked me how old she is and what she looks like. much better now anyway. she used to look like a man.

you're right, i was kidding, and the reason i was kidding is because i think humor actually helps us to see things from a clearer perspective. if there was a point underlying the humor, it was that for some unknown reason i already "see" your sister in my mind's eye, and i see a pure and beautiful soul. i resonate to her concerns of not letting the body interfere with the soul, and i appreciate her sense of values, and i laud you as a brother working at trying to help her nurture herself spiritually. i frankly get a big charge out of it, especially since i'm a total stranger to that sort of sibling love & nurturance myself.

speaking personally as an artist of sorts myself (music & words are my medium), i don't think god the father or the cosmos would have a bit of a problem if we take a bit of sculpture he left partly unfinished, admire his handiwork, and do a bit of fine polishing on it ourselves. i'm 57, back to pumping a little bit of iron as part of my overall health care plan, and i like what i see looking back at me in the mirror of the workout room. again, i didn't build it - god did (to use a little archaic language i like), but it feels to me like he & i are working together, co-creating, when i appreciate his divine handiwork & use it as a platform to build on. similarly, my dad used to do wood carving before he left this planet, and he left a lot of unfinished carvings of rabbits, birds, & other animals of various sorts lying around. do i think daddy would mind if i one day decide to pick up a little unfinished bunny rabbit he left carved out of cedar wood, whittle on it a little bit, then sand & polish it? heck no. i think he'd be pleased as punch, and flattered as well. that's just what i think. let me pursue that a tad more, if i may.

it's become a cultural fad to see the "father" image in the same negative light as all the men who came back severely traumatized by world war ii, too devastated & too emotionally wounded to be close to their children. i think that is most unfortunate, because the word "father" in the original hebrew tradition from which our bible sprang carries a great deal more than the sort of emotionally empty, bankrupt authority with which my "boomer" generation has invested it. originally it carried heavy overtones of deep affection, which that original source culture was not timid about showing. any american politician who rips his brooks brothers suit and smears ashes on himself in front of tv cameras will likely get committed to the nearest insane asylum, but that's only because current american society is so emotionally bankrupt, so terrified of giving expression to honest deep feelings, so terribly afraid that honest feelings with smother us like hot lava from vesuvius and carry us away. but the very same middle eastern monarchs who tore their clothes and smeared ashes on themselves were also known to embrace their sons, weep for them, kiss them, and throw big bashes with lots of wine & dancing girls when they did things well. just pick up an old testament & begin reading - you won't have to go too far before you see it. that is why i still see a wealth of richness in the image "father" as an image for the divine living presence - that, combined with the fact that my own daddy was a great guy, even though i had to spend years digging through trails of wounds and garbage strewn behind from his honest ignorance in rearing my older brother and me before i could see it. once you find a father's love, nothing else quite compares to it. i can surely "see" the great spiraling torsion fields of living energy, patterns on which the milky way itself was modeled, and feel a sense of connection with "it." but no matter what, i can't quite fathom the love in it that i do in the greatness of my own father's soul and his love for me, flawed and imperfect through it's expression was, by virtue of his own generic human weakness.

gosh, i'm on a roll, and the words are flowing like sheets of water down a rock in a mountain waterfall, so it's probably time to quit.

please give your sister a big hug for me & tell her *deerclan* said it's all ok. :)

deerclan

[Matthew Clark]

hi deerclan and everyone,


gosh, i'm on a roll, and the words are flowing like sheets of water down a rock in a mountain waterfall, so it's probably time to quit.

deerclan, what a lovely response to hoppppe. as you were on a roll, you should have carried on:)

i do not wish to stray off of the original thread by continuing on about my own father (after your story) but i would like to say that i agree with what you say about the great relationship they both have.

also hoppppe, there is nothing wrong with your sister looking like a man, when i was younger i was told i looked like a girl! and i had no boobs too!!

still give her a spiritual cuddle from us all and assure her she will be fine :d

love and light,

matt :)

[Deerclan]

deerclan, what a lovely response to hoppppe. as you were on a roll, you should have carried on:)

thanks, matthew. i won't squash it next time. :)