Shadow Work - Where to begin?

[childofthetao]

hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it.

i would like to know what books to buy and what websites to visit to gain a more in depth understanding of the shadow and what is involved with working with it.

i presume some of carl jungs books are needed but which ones? i have looked on amazon but failed to find any books relating to the shadow.

any help is appreciated.

[moderator note: an interesting proposal for a new thread, but specific book mention is off-topic for the forum. members, any insight of your own? ;)]

thank you
child of the tao

[Deerclan]

child of the tao,

i know a lot of people find jung's own writings to be very difficult to understand in english. i've tried reading jung's own work, but it is too big a chore for me. luckily, there are other ways to get to the heart of jung's work.

there are a lot of us who like the writings of one of jung's students, whose name is robert johnson. i've met him and found him to be a truly enlightened, gentle, humble human being with a great sense of humor and a dry delivery. i remember him talking about some myth to a sizable group. as i recall, it was about a young girl who fell into the sea, and after her parents fished her out, they named her "fishy-smell." his delivery was so dry and straight-faced, i cackled with laughter.

anyhow, robert has written lots of books, but one of his best ones for people getting started in reading about jung is a book that talks about inner work in the title. i'll be glad to give the exact title to anyone who pm's me. robert has the gift of taking jung's ideas, and putting them into very simple, clear english. he was actually in analysis with jung as a student, so if there is a better spokesperson for jung, i don't know who it would be.

i personally love jung's work. for one thing, jungian work is *not* finished until a person has been able to take their lessons learned and found a way to ground them into the physical world. that curbs the tendency a lot of us have just to give in to our imagination and let it roam freely wherever it wants to. jungian work is hard work, and it involves self-discipline. but oh, it is so worth it when those insights begin coming!

finally, i read the sticky on "dream interpretation," and david wilcock's recommendations on working with dreams fit very nicely with the ideas of jung. in fact that is one of the things that gave david a lot of credibility in my eyes.

i'm rambling again. ok, here's deerclan's "off" button. :)

deerclan

[Art]

hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it.

if i may share some of my own personal insight...

there is nothing to overcome. this direction will only lead to more conflict. when we deny ourself something, we are denying the will of our shadow. why? i don't know. i used to believe in "surrendering" to the will of the creator. again, i learned this wasn't the way. surrendering in this sense denying our will. the will of the creator can and shall come through me, and i'm free to pursue any experience desired. while these may seem to be the same thing, they are very different. the first kills our soul's desires. the second preserves them and allows us to work in harmony.

work with/learn from our shadow? this starts with accepting yourself for who you are. if i remember correctly, jung said "enlightenment is not to found staring at the light, but by staring into the dark." embracing parts of ourselves can be difficult. each of us has things we want to change. thats completely normal, and ok. loving yourself, with all your perceived imperfections, will allow you to love others. there is much to be learned from accepting ourselves. as one forum member puts it, "the world is your mirror". so, things that bug you on the outside (or other people) are really things you do not accept about yourself on the inside. this internal conflict isn't easy to resolve. if one here were to claim they have resolved all internal conflict and embraced their shadow 100%, they're likely full of it, and need a slice of humble pie. the learning never stops, and each day is ripe for dis-cover-y.

i too once struggled with jung's concepts. i won't pretend to be any authority on them, and can only give my insights learned from other forum members (especially soup) and david. should you desire to pursue further research, go for it. on the other hand, i think you could learn all you need here.

i hope this may be a little what you were looking for... good luck.

art

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wow art!

that is my favourite jungian statement:)

have you heard this one: a is looking for his/her lost keys....

b: -any idea about where you lost them?

a: -over there, pointing into the shadow

b: -so why are you looking under the streetlamp?

a: -it's brighter here....

liliane transiten

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childofthetao

the place one usually first meet the shadow is...in other persons. we project our own unconscious characteristics onto another and that's why we become attracted or repelled or both, by that person.

you have perhaps talents that you are unaware of, they might have been repressed by your parents or the culture you live in and then you see them in another person and thast's very attractive right. if on the contrary the characteristics are negative like aggression in a woman, she can be attracted to that because of her repressed agression, but in the end she will be repelled if the male turns the aggression towards her..or she might not be able to break out of the relationship because of codependencypatterns.

then we have the archetypes that are connected to the fundamental common human experience and that's another chapter. fairytales like cinderella are a perfect start for that research and many have been analysed from a jungian perspective.

speaking from personal experiences confirmed of in jungian psychology f.i.

good luck from one that has been delving too deep down in the shadow for her own best:cool: does not mean cool here. :)will be shining for 4 more days and i will not look for any lost keys, just relax and sungaze!

[transiten]

...and also in this world of neptunian "illusions" there is this "taking back your projections" from your fellow man once you've learned to detect and cope with your own shadow...

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[transiten]

hi

as a matter of fact my shadow is staring me right up in the face at the moment, and i'm right down scared that i will repeat my old pattern again, doing "forbidden " things, being ashamed ánd feeling guilt when showing myself, without knowing why, accusing others for my misfortune etc.

and this in spite of all the books i've read, the inner work i've been doing and my spiritual search...this is not to make you feel it's a hopeless mission;)
we are all different and don't have the same level of difficulties, but if someone can learn somethjing from the work i've been doing and that all the hardships can be of some use to others, i will be better off too...

the shadow of your smile, when you are gone...

bye for now from transiten

[Deerclan]

if i may say a word to everyone on this thread --- working with the shadow is courageous work.

art made a couple of points in his post about how difficult & challenging this work can be. it takes courage.

i respect the courage each of you has shown in taking on this type of work, childofthetao, art, and transiten. :)

deerclan

[ggw_bach]

hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it.



what makes you angry?

that is the darkness you are denying in yourself, not willing to acknowledge.

who do you admire, almost slavishly?

that is something that you feel lacking in yourself, that is not yet integrated.

just a start, but so called 'irrational' emotional reactions have a deep underlying core; the fractured self that we are not yet willing to deal with.

mind you, there are emotions that are genuine, real, valid reactions. but the sort of emotional reactions that freak your friends or strangers out ... that is the mark of the shadow rising. and likewise, you can see the same effect in others'; especially those you are closest to. start by observing them, and trying to decipher a deeper cause; that sort of analytical methodology will aid in diagnosing yourself. for ultimately shadow work is self-therapy. no-one else can step into your mind.

blessings, ggw

[Deerclan]

nice post, ggw. very down-to-earth.

i just started thinking about posting some general things about dreamwork, if anybody would be interested. i approach dreams from a jungian viewpoint (that is, based on the work of swiss psychiatrist carl jung), and i was delighted to learn when i got here that david's recommendations for doing dreamwork fit nicely with what dr. jung has to say. before i say any more, ggw wrote a powerful, simple statement (which i am coming to recognize as a gift of his) about it:



no-one else can step into your mind.
blessings, ggw

yes, and that is one of the things i like *best* about jung's approach. for simplicity, i'll just say that there are two basic types of images that occur in dreams. one is personal, and the other is universal.

the importance of personal dream images is the key statement that nobody can interpret them but you. such things as that stuffed toy you had as a child, or a nickname you got at school - those are images that are unique to you, and not even the best dream interpreter in the world can tell you exactly what they mean without knowing all about them beforehand.

universal symbols are just what the word suggests - universal. certain types of images are understood by virtually everyone across the globe, and they tend to mean certain established things. a few examples are: fire, wise old woman, earth, house, walking on a path, flying, eating food, a beautiful young lover, and water. when these images appear in your dreams, an outside person familiar with dreamworking can help you see what your dreams are telling you, because they are universal. one quick example:

when you see a beautiful romantic figure in your dream, beckoning you to go with him/her, that image generally represents something called the "psychopomp," a ten-dollar word for your own soul calling you to go deeper inside yourself to find the treasures there. once you get deeper inside yourself, you are likely to encounter the shadow, which is all your own beautiful traits that you have been wrongly taught are "bad" and "ugly." they may be your playful side, your sexual side, your angry / protective side, or virtually anything else that crossed somebody's mind to teach you wrongly is "bad." these shadow selves are very valuable, because once you learn to 'make friends' with them, they can turn into some of your most beautiful, powerful, loving qualities. finding those things inside yourself can be one of the most powerful, awesome experiences you can imagine.

these are a couple of the layers of the soul, so to speak, that a person will likely encounter on the inner path deep inside their own soul. if a person learns to recognize them, that makes the journey much easier and smoother.

maybe the mods & fellow posters could give me feedback on whether this is something they would all like to see.

thanks. and again, ggw, outstanding post.

deerclan

[childofthetao]

i'd like to thank everyone for all the info you have shared, i feel i'm off to a good start and that any confusion i may need clearing up or any help i may need along the way will not be a problem when i can discuss it with all of you :) thank you

deerclan, i would very much love to hear all you have to say about dreamwork, as it too is something i just begun to take seriously, and i'm sure too that there are many others who would value your knowledge and insights into the subject.

in fact if anyone can shed a little light on an interesting dream i had, and if not i'm sure it would be an intriguing little read anyway.

about two years ago i had a big kundalini activation (although at the time i had no idea what it was), in trying to understand what happened, i took to an internet forum on astral project/metaphysics and learned of the word "awakening", which really hit home with me and i intuitively felt that i had indeed "awakened".

when i was about five (twenty five now) i had a nightmare that has stuck with me all my life. somehow it has always felt like the only 'real' dream i've ever had, like all the others just weren't important.

it was strange though, because the dream itself wasn't actually scary, but it terrified me for some reason.

i dreamed that me and some family were in my living room looking out of the window at a huge arm sticking out of our back garden (at night)

that's it, i never understood the fear.

now, when i typed the word "awakening" into google images looking for an avatar to use, i almost fell over when i saw the images that showed up.

go take a look and you'll see what i mean.

what is your opinion of those images and that place? i'm sure they must be universal rather than personal images.

again, thank you all for you help.

[Deerclan]

i didn't find anything that seemed to fit with your post. can you post a link to it?

d.c.


what is your opinion of those images and that place? i'm sure they must be universal rather than personal images.

[childofthetao]

just type awakening into google image, or go to this link http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=awakening&btng=search+images&gbv=2

surely you see all those pictures of those huge arms sticking out of the ground? just like it was in my dream expect the one in my dream seemed a little less human and more monstrous.

[Deerclan]

ah yes, that one. i saw in years ago when i visited d.c. it was impressive.

at the moment, i'm kind of stumped with that one, tao. (i hope you don't mind if i call you "tao" - it seems to fit.) it seems to lie somewhere in the middle between personal images & archetypal images. it must lie somewhere in our collective unconscious, since the sculptor obviously got the image, you got the image, and it's similar to an image that found its way into one of my poems years ago, about a giant emerging from the earth. but three people do not an archetype make. :) usually archetypal images are found in a variety of myths, fairy tales, & older works of literature. if there is a story about a giant emerging from the earth, though, i'm not aware of it or can't bring it to mind.

i am tempted to say that perhaps it is an emerging archetype, but that would be making up my own words and ideas. the best i can tell you is that it seems to fit with the recent information david has brought about ancient sumer and the anunnaki. suppose the anunnaki are awakening to who they really are? do you have any thoughts or feelings about that?

it looks like i threw out the challenge & got stumped on the first try. :) but let's keep the idea close at hand, keep it in the back of our minds, as see what (if any) meanings attach themselves to it. let me close with a question. assuming you are familiar with sumer & the anunnaki, how does it feel to you to think about yourself as one of the anunnaki in a past life?

[Deerclan]

my wife just elucidated (ahem!) your dream image for me. according to her, there is a mountain on the way into wales that is named "sleeping giant." by her account, this mountain is shaped like a giant lying down. it's covered with grass & trees, and her family used to drive past it. here's a photo"

wales:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/abercraf/

she also reminded me of the norse myths, in which the gods called the aesir created the world out of the body of a giant. ok, so it is archetypal. :)

while searching for the mountain in wales, i discovered that there are more places called "sleeping giant mountain," scattered across the globe.

mt. carmel, connecticutt
http://www.sgpa.org/

montana: [no actual pic of the mountain, so please pm for url]


wyoming: [mods: there was no actual pic in this link, so it was removed]

there is also one in the hawaiian islands, on the island of kauai, just outside the town of wailua. i think i remember that there is a limit on the number of links allowed in one post, so i'll leave it to anyone else who might be interested to do their own search.

so, tao, this puts a whole new slant on your dream. so what does it mean? i do not know. i am starting to get a "creepy" feeling about it, which means my feelings apparently "know" something about it, but it has not yet reached my conscious mind. this is mildly tangential, but there is a gifted irish poet named john o'donahoe who talks about the innate knowledge in the clay from which we are made. what does the earth know about sleeping giants? what does our own "clay" know about them?

this is quickly turning into a stunning productive search, tao. i'll tag on one more (rather insignificant) thing i *do* know, and that is that this thread has turned into a rather wonderful example of what can happen when a person asks for help in understanding the meaning of a dream image. i don't know about anyone else, but this is giving me a tiny tingle of euphoria. it's fun!

:)

if there is a moral to the story, it is this: *always* listen to a woman. :)

paul

[tuesday]

there is also grandfather mountain, nc:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m87/tuesday_pm/newpix2.jpg

hi all. hope nobody will mind if i join the conversation. i also 'recognized' the idea of a hand emerging from the earth, which tao described from his/her dream, but i don't know why it is familiar to me. the sculpture "awakening" is very different from my mental picture of the idea; both tao's dream and the sculpture are more menacing than the sense i have of it.

it nagged at me, so i went looking for it. was this a myth, or a fairytale i've forgotten? could it be a painting i am trying to remember? i didn't see any images that matched the feeling of this image in my mind, but i did find this text, in which an artist describes his painting, "awakening":

"what you're seeing is a person being gently pulled outward from the undifferentiated, sometimes chaotic sleep of earthly existence, dying his "last" death, achieving (once again!) immortality through another change in form."

i didn't especially like the painting (made up of tiny dots: pointillism?), but his description of it perfectly describes the sense i have of the arm in tao's dream. spring...beginnings...re-birth...recycle...hope...potential.

[childofthetao]

hmm, an anunnaki in a past life? well anything's possible i suppose, my intuition doesn't take me either way on that one. however i was once told that those who awaken (or experience a natural k awakening) are experiencing their final physical incarnation. that added to all the talk about et souls inhabiting physical human bodies places it firmly in the realm of possibility in my mind.

previous lives are something that have always fascinated me, but they are something i suppose will always be a mystery.

the way i see this "awakening" image, we have a before and after state. before, one is trapped inside the world, blind, bound and buried. after is the freedom of a new state of being. this awakening image seems to be the transition phase in between these two states as one becomes the other.

maybe the giant was once smaller and outgrew his old world? like the world being an egg.

in those images on google, the arm is definitely human and also "active". it's full of life and is breaking free. the arm in my dream was brown and scaly with claws, it was also limp, just hanging there as though it was dead. now i wouldn't have been able to see this (as it was night) if not for the fact that there was a bonfire in the garden (a man was tending it) illuminating the scene. there was also a young girl about my age at the time examining the arm. she was braver than me, that arm scared me and there was no way you would have got me out there.

these are all no doubt important symbols, but i'm afraid i have no idea how to interpret them. i am very new to dreamwork, and i have only ever been able to successfully interpret two dreams i've ever had, which was in act the same dream repeated in a different way.

you say that david has some recent information regarding the anunnaki and sumer? i haven't read that, but would like to, could you link me to it?

also i agree how interesting it can be to discuss such things :)

child of the tao

[childofthetao]

i asked about stories of giants breaking free from the earth or being imprisoned in it on yahoo answers.

some of the replies indicate there are aboriginal dreamtime stories of the earth giving birth to giants. there's one in greek mythology when uranus imprisons his ugly children, the hecatonchires, in gaia, the earth. they are eventually freed.

and someone posted a story which i will paste here although they never gave a source:

the story of antonio vampa

once upon a time there was a young sheperd in the mountains named antonio vampa. he was of humble family lines and lived by himself in a small wooden shack. by his home there was a cave, of indeed large size, which often he would go into. he played the flute, and loved it dearly; so much so that once, when a salesman had offered him a large home fit for seven families in exchange for the flute, he refused.

one day vampa was walking along a path and noticed and old man by the side of it. having no pressing matters, he approached the old man, and asked him, "are you in need of assisstance?"

the old man, looking up quite perplexed, replied in a heavy turkish accent, "yes, my dear boy, it seems i had a beautiful tune in my head but i cannot hear it."

vampa, feeling charitable, produced his beloved flute from a cloth sack strapped to his back, and lent it to the old man, seeing that he was in no condition to run off with it; it was easy to see that he already had one foot in the grave.

the old man, who was actually a very experienced floutist, held it in his hands for a moment with a pondering face; then, having a sudden epiphany, played the most beautiful song that vampa ever heard in his life.

returning the flute to its owner, the old man said, "oh, thank you my dear boy, it has been a burden on my heart that i could not hear that one more time before i passed away... my mother wrote that for me when i was but a boy, there were lyrics but i since have forgotten them long ago...

"anyhow, i believe it is in good intentions to recompense you for your time, yes? ah, i believe i have just the thing!" and taking a small vial from his pocket, he gave it to vampa.

"now this potion, i believe, is very useful... it makes anything it touches grow... or was it shrink? it's been so long, and my old mind has seen too much... anyhow! it may come in very useful one day, whether you are starving and grow a small trifle into a king's feast, or a charging bull into a harmless little beast, i'm not sure. either way something changes, whether it be grow or shrink. and now i'm off, dear friend!" and exclaiming this he stood up, produced a walking stick and went on his merry way to the ends of the earth.

vampa, seeing no immediate need for this vial, stashed it away in his pocketbag next to his flute.

and just then the heavens became dark and dense, and the sky began to rain.

vampa ran into the cave for shelter, his small home having holes in the roof and unable to keep away this onpour. he went deep into his favorite parts of the cave, to a spot where he often went during these situations, at which firewood was already present; within a minute he had it crackling with flames.


becoming bored, he remembered the old man's song. he reached in his pocketbag for the flute, however, upon pulling it out the fire suddenly went out without explanation, and in the confusion the vial accidentally slipped out and broke.

now, being in a state of pandemonium vampa did not notice; instead, he tried to get the fire back and soon he had it restarted.

it was then he noticed the broken glass. filled with fear, he checked around for where it had spilt, but his search was vain; it could have been all over the ground or over himself. in despair that he had lost the old man's precious gift, something strange began to happen... the cave began to get smaller!

now, filled with panic, he remembered that it could be that he was getting bigger. so either it was he growing or it shrinking, he did not know. but either way it was increasingly getting claustrophobic in there and the fire's smoke just added to this.

soon he became cramped in the cave, and was unable to get out the small entrance tunnel that had once been just the perfect size. in time he was even unable to move his arms or legs.

coincidentally at that very moment the rain stopped; however, the potion did not. in time he felt like the walls were about to burst from him, and indeed they did. many that day later recalled of a giant man, at least 50 feet tall, suddenly bursting from the earth.

the potion still did not stop. getting frantic, he began to look around for the old man; however, with every step he crushed tree or houses, knocked over boulders, and the like.

at this time he began to reach at least thousands of feet tall when his foot got stuck in the mediterranean. his head was in the stars, and seeing that he was too big for the earth (or it was too small for him!) he slipped his foot from his stuck shoe, and leaped among the stars, where he resides today.

as for the shoe, it toppled over and was soon settled in by some very strange people, who named it italy for some unknown reason. the shoe was so big that even to this day the are convinced it is really land. they have even imitated the smell of the shoe in a dish they call "sausage lasagna".

this theme seems to exist in several mythologies. interesting.

child of the tao

[Deerclan]

this story fits nicely with your idea that the "giant" story represents transformation. specifically, the transformation from consciousness that sees the physical world as all there is, to becoming aware of the soul.

several elements of the story lend support to that, i think. one is vampa's fascination with beauty (music). second, he puts his love of beauty ahead of material things, when he turns down a mansion and keeps his flute. a third is his loving respect for old people - a traditional tribal value, and one that tends to get lost in capitalistic systems whose only appreciated of the elderly is what cash can be wrung out of them. (apologies to any capitalist friends here.) finally, vampa leaves the earth and lives among the stars.

i got curious about vampa's name, since names generally have meanings in mythical stories. here's what wikipedia had to say:

"vampa f (plural vampe)
heat, flame
hot flush (skin sensation)
blush"

from: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vampa

fire is often equated with light, so vampa's name seems to imply that he was a light being. also, he was comfortable with his own inner feminine essence. this next may be stretching it a bit, but "blush" could be understood as a healthy sense of shame or natural humility.

your description of the arm in your dream, however, also reminds me a lot of the old danish story of beowulf, the oldest written story in english language. beowulf was an ancient scandanavian warrior-king, a hero who fights a primal monster named grendel & slays grendel by tearing his arm off. part of that association with your dream is the grendel's description as having scales and talons. also, beowulf hung the arm over the door as a symbol of the kingdom's victory over the forces of darkness. grendel represents some kind of psychological / spiritual struggle, since he cannot be killed by any weapon, and beowulf is only victorious because he chooses to fight him bare-handed. to me grendel stands for physical consciousness, largely due to his voracious hunger, which hints at believing that one is "lacking" & needs something from outside to fill the inner hunger.

apologies for the length of this post. it's easy for me to get carried away with these topics, particularly mythical images that show up in dreams. it's one concrete manifestation of the fact that we are all linked together.

thanks for sharing, tao. :)

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tao and deerclan

the syncs are so strong and i'm so exhausted i almost don't have the energy to write them down but once i get started... yesterday after reading taos post i took the doggywalk and passed a cutdown tree that has been there for a long time. only now alone in the night with a dim light coming from the right angle, the trunk looked like a sleeping giant, with an "arm" sricking up.

i watched a documentary about an english blond tall woman living for one month with the much shorter kunaindians going through a healingprocess that made her say she had to go to the other side of the world to find what she lacked as a child..a loving mother.

in the evening i had an e-mail from a tall blond dutch woman who hired a room at my place some years ago and told me about the "awakening" she had in a small hut in laos (the laotians are also smaller than her) she also thanked me for being part of it reconnecting her with music and astrology.

there is more but this will do for now;)

this forum really is a healingexperience for me and i'm so thankful for the contribution we are all making this to happen to ourselves.
pluto has entered capricorn:breaking down and out of old structures. venus is about going retrograde:reevaluating our relationships and meeting old friends.

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[SamZee]

this is a subject i still need to delve into fully. i still have much to learn about it, but i would like to share with everyone here a quote i fabricated just this past week.

"the shadow self is overcome by accepting it as a part of yourself and learning that pain and fear is an illusion. not the type of illusion that denotes artificiality, because it's very real. it's an illusion in the sense that we believe we're powerless against it. when really we're the creators of it, therefore we control it. we are it."

just a sparkling gem of insight i spit out while writing on the dreammoods.com forum. any and all feedback is much appreciated. =]

[Volunteer]

i understand that jung got the idea that one's shadow is important after he had devoted three years to studying as many different religions as he could from all around the world. jung came to the conclusion that these religions nearly always had an exoteric and an esoteric form. "exoteric" simply means the advanced form, which was the true core of the religion, which was kept hidden from everybody except the most "advanced" practitioners. jung also concluded that much or most of the esoteric teaching could be summed up as embracing your shadow and all that that implies. i would add here that the exoteric (the public) teaching of most religions can be summed up as saying: "be good."

i have found that mastering how to embrace my shadow is much, much harder to really do in practice than it might seem in theory. in 1998 i was at a retreat in the himalayas which was supposedly on "enlightenment", when the god shiva (the god of enlightenment and liberation, and greatest of all gods) appeared to me in an extremely clear and precise waking dream for over 30 minutes. he told me i would learn everything i ever wanted to know about true enlightenment, and more, from a female teacher i would meet back in sydney in 3 months less 10 days' time. (it so happens i had already experienced the lowest levels of enlightenment over 30 years before then.) suffice it to say that shiva was right in every detail, even though i had in some ways doubted him and i had forgotten about that future date. and the central thing that female spiritual teacher taught was what embracing own's shadow really means -- at a practical and specific level as much as at a theoretical one.

as a first practical step for anybody interested, i'd like to suggest that you won't get far with this one unless you first learn how to truly like yourself. most people secretly hate themselves, inside. that's the truth! may i also humbly suggest you consider the possibility that embracing your shadow is what spirituality at its deepest levels, and its application, is all about. and that maybe this is just about the most important topic there is.

[noppy]

shadow self is like the soul

both of them are left alone but the soul is more left alone than the shadow, than the mind, than the body. just observing what you're doing and trying to wake you up.

i find listening to the soul and being emotional naked more difficult than knowing the shadow self.

what i do to heal the shadowself is too speak the truth to myself and knowing that there is no such thing as wrong if there is no such thing as wrong than it means i am not wrong if i'm not wrong than it means there is no need to denial myself. everything about me is natural, my feelings , my emotions, how i look like, how i think, how i am being. i am perfect just the way i am.

the more i denial myself the more the shadow self is created. why do i denial myself? because i think that part of me is wrong and that's because of what school and society tells me what to be. the survival of the strongest, the victory of the smartest, every man for it's own. but never the glory of love, truth and joy.

we are love, we are perfect and wonderful just the way we are that is how source makes things. even god can not see one single mistake in you.

if you want to heal the shadow than stop denying yourself. your not wrong, your not a mistake, your not banish by god. you are worth it to get the best things of life and your welcome when ever you are ready to come home

[Volunteer]

noppy, i found your comments delightful. however, i’m not sure if readers who are beginners in this area would have a clear understanding of what everything you're saying was about. so here are several comments that hopefully may further help beginners. and then i’ll explain the point – probably the only point – where i seem to disagree with you.

it’s impressive that you’re able to identify your dark side so clearly. as you know, the great majority of people can’t identify their dark side much at all. that’s because most of the time it stays largely invisible to them at a conscious level, and occasionally it temporarily takes them over. when it takes them over, people usually don’t realize it’s their dark side and not them.

it’s even more impressive that you talk to your dark side. the dark side certainly needs daily reassurance that joy and sunshine really do exist, and are normal things. and beyond that, also to hear deeper positive messages too. so lovely to hear that you do this.

and yes, as you say, the only way that works is to always accept ourselves just as we are, to forgive ourselves (without running away from any responsibilities). a person is normally far more harshly judgmental about themselves than they are about anyone else. the irony is, most of that judgment usually concerns things that the person’s dark side has done, in their name.

where i seem to disagree with you is in how to treat one’s own dark side. my understanding is that the only thing that works is to marry it, so to speak: to totally accept and care about it. so i would say it’s more a matter of fusing with it rather than considering it as separate from who you most deeply are. of course, as soon as one truly loves a part of one’s dark side unreservedly, that part then disappears forever.

this may sound confusing to some readers unless i clarify that accepting oneself, or accepting one's dark side, also involves facing all the implications, which may mean a lot of pain even though one is resting in the peace of knowing their own personal truth.

thank you very much for your post. i love the subtlety which you have obviously mastered. you've obviously reached advanced levels of practice.

[noppy]

thank you volunteer !!

i never thought i have reached advanced levels of practice. anyway your right ! i'm gonna read your post over and over again. to get a better understanding of it. i'm slowly seeing that things are connected to each other.

but what do you mean with talking to the darkside? do you know how you can talk to your darkside? i loved to know it, i have a great feeling that, that is realy important stuff to know and can be used to other things.

[evolving]

where i seem to disagree with you is in how to treat one’s own dark side. my understanding is that the only thing that works is to marry it

as long as it doesn't get the house in the divorce!

[ankarusskaya]

dear deerclan,
thank you for your post. i am sorry i cannot give you a feedback since your dream knowledge is so much deeper than mine))
let me ask you this however and maybe you could help me to clarify-
once in my life i've seen god in my dream, where i knew immediately it was him/her(though he presented himself in a geometrical form-triangle:)), and he showed me things so beautiful, out of this world!!! however the most amazing part was that he broke my stereotypes about him- my image of god was always strict, iconic like, church related, etc. so god let me know in my dream that he was young, childish and had a sense of humour!!! yes, god has a sense of humour!!! i woke up with quite a pleasant feeling! the whole experience was amazing! so was this personal or universal? and how many of you people saw god in your dreams when you really knew it was him?

[Perseus]

great point about carl jung, most psychologists and psychiatrists seem to forget about carl jung's work which is a shame as he was immensely spiritual.

[conundrum]

yes, god has a sense of humour

yeah i noticed although its only funny when he tells me about it !!! not when i personally experience it well not at the time any way only when my body comes back out of shock my mind stops spinning i change my under wear stop screaming ect.

then i can look back only then and kind of laugh a little :rolleyes:


as a first practical step for anybody interested, i'd like to suggest that you won't get far with this one unless you first learn how to truly like yourself. most people secretly hate themselves, inside. that's the truth! may i also humbly suggest you consider the possibility that embracing your shadow is what spirituality at its deepest levels, and its application, is all about. and that maybe this is just about the most important topic there is.

yes point taken... finding out that there is a galaxy or universe full of humanoids like us doesn't go down to well if people secretly hate themselves (humans), inside.

a solution to racism hate/love every one including your self then it isn't racism.

it might even work in reverse who knows :confused:

[FooSnik]

great point about carl jung, most psychologists and psychiatrists seem to forget about carl jung's work which is a shame as he was immensely spiritual.

indeed he was very spiritual. i love this story of his in which he talks about an instance of synchronicity which happened with one of his clients.


in his article synchronicity, an acausal connecting principle, carl g. jung gives an example which has, over time, become famous: "a young woman i was treating had, at a critical moment, a dream in which she was given a golden scarab. while she was telling me this dream i sat with my back to the closed window. suddenly i heard a noise behind me, like a gentle tapping. i turned round and saw a flying insect knocking against the window-pane from outside. i opened the window and caught the creature in the air as it flew in. it was the nearest analogy to a golden scarab that one finds in our latitudes, a scarabaeid beetle, the common rose-chafer (cetonia aurata), which contrary to its usual habits had evidently felt an urge to get into a dark room at this particular moment." [coll. works, vol. 8, § 843]

jung continues "the meaningful connection is obvious enough ... in view of the approximate identity of the chief objects (the scarab and the beetle)." [cw, vol. 8, § 845] he then notices that the treatment of this patient would be at first very difficult because she was caught up in a certain rationalism and the possibility of the irrational phenomena would be completely refused. she, therefore, would need a change of perspective whereby her consciousness could open with respect to the irrational. such a transformation of consciousness is almost exclusively represented by symbols of rebirth. jung writes: "the scarab is a classic example of a rebirth symbol. the ancient egyptian book of what is in the netherworld describes how the dead sun-god changes himself at the tenth station into khepri, the scarab, and then, at the twelfth station, mounts the barge which carries the rejuvenated sun-god into the morning sky." [cw, vol. 8, § 845]

http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/scarab_synchronicity_jung.htm]


yeah i noticed although its only funny when he tells me about it !!! not when i personally experience it well not at the time any way only when my body comes back out of shock my mind stops spinning i change my under wear stop screaming ect.


:d i love your manner of putting things.

i have broken down so many times in my life. and by broken down, i mean deep, suicidal, walking through hell kind of depressions. it was during these times that the most growth occurred for me. like when dw was saying that the universe breaks down but then reorders itself in a higher order. well this happened to me. like in avatar when she was saying that their people believe every man or woman is born twice. and during one bout of depression my roommate, who is a tough lady born and raised in harlem, said that all men/women will break down at least three times in life. well i have been reborn about 10 times now it seems.

i realize that i was doing my best to form a method to go about life without getting beaten down by the rat race. defense mechanisms and crutches that took the form of different kinds of escapism. scared to be myself around other people because my fragile self esteem couldn't handle the rejection of someone not liking me. i am smart enough to be able to fool people for a time but i am too weak to keep it up for long. so when i couldn't keep it up any longer i would go into a tail spin dive of depression. hole myself up in my apartment and barely be able to take care of the bare essentials of health and maintenance of my body. i now view my "weakness" as a strength. because if i was strong as an ox i could have gone through my entire life without breaking down and forcing myself to peer into my shadow side.

each time i would break down like this it would force another issue and peel away another layer of my defense mechanisms. i would have to ask myself the question, "am i going to let this thing defeat me? i obviously can't contiue with life in this way, so, i am going to have to face this thing head on, figure it out, and try again a new way." creating a paradox of becoming more vulnerable to the world but also becoming tougher and more thick skinned in not caring if people like the real me or not.

in the world that we live in a third of the people are not going to like you. a third of the people will love you. and a third of the people could not care less about you. this is just the nature of the world we live in.

but people love and gravitate towards people who are comfortable with being exactly who they are and don't feel shameful or guilty about themselves. i think part of me feels that i couldn't handle all that attention so i think that is part of the reason that i remain partially guarded.

but truly deep down inside we are all the same. everybody poops. :p

this is the latest gem i have pulled from my shadow side. just thought i would share. i only write these things because it helped me so much to read what other people have gone through during times of their breakdowns/breakthroughs and so maybe my stories will help others.

my roommate, the tough lady from harlem, also told me that you have to throw some humor in it. laugh at yourself and not to be too hard on yourself. so i took that to heart and found richard pryor. i always loved him but after growing up and experiencing life a little more i now find him masterful. that man was so riddled with anxiety, which i can relate too, but he managed to turn it into some of the funniest stand up comedy of all time. changing comedy as we know it. so here is one of my favorite bits by him. on love and losing love...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojadmfibw5c

love to all,
foo

[conundrum]

i have broken down so many times in my life. and by broken down, i mean deep, suicidal, walking through hell kind of depressions.

running ducking weaving gives you a kind of high for a while but when your legs give out the sudden stop and thud is not pleasant every thing your running from catches up all at once and takes a piece of you and you are unable to run even if you want to.

richard in his last days slept with a hand pistol next to his bed apparently afraid of that exact same thing occuring some things just aint funny at the time only after you forgive the event let go of the pain and look back can you laugh about it.


and during one bout of depression my roommate, who is a tough lady born and raised in harlem, said that all men/women will break down at least three times in life.

i am sure at this point in time there are a few tough ladies and men having a good old laugh at this point in time as well as those whom are not well not yet any way :d

[FooSnik]

running ducking weaving gives you a kind of high for a while but when your legs give out the sudden stop and thud is not pleasant every thing your running from catches up all at once and takes a piece of you and you are unable to run even if you want to.

richard in his last days slept with a hand pistol next to his bed apparently afraid of that exact same thing occuring some things just aint funny at the time only after you forgive the event let go of the pain and look back can you laugh about it.

i am sure at this point in time there are a few tough ladies and men having a good old laugh at this point in time as well as those whom are not well not yet any way :d

i think i am going to go to the library and find a biography of richard pryor. should be fascinating. and no, some things are not funny at all. nothing scares me more then visiting another one of those deep, scary and lonely depressions that i passed through. these are my thoughts on avoiding another one. a solution of sorts. we will see if it works:

when my brothers left home they had plans to make some money and create a nice life for themselves. i am the odd ball. not only for being 10 years younger but also because i left home with the specific goal of losing it all. i felt that if i could lose all my material possessions and live in poverty i could then begin to deeply appreciate the smaller things in life. and to a degree i have become successful with that.

i have gained a lot of wisdom and understanding from that path. but it has also brought about a measure of heartache as well. i now realize that the most important thing in life, for me anyway, is a deep soul connection with other people. and the more i understand this the more noticeable it is that most people around me are so disconnected and caught up in their ambition to gain material wealth and safety.

the more wise i become the more lonely i feel. essentially.

but my saving grace is my understanding that the universe is infinite and the possibilities are endless. and all it will take is one good person to find and have a deep soul connection with, that i can team up and share life with.

and i don't mean romantic love either. could be a best guy friend or a wife or girlfriend. i just mean a teammate to go about life with. because we are all born confused and forget where we come from. and it is very challenging to put the puzzle back together again. and the more of the puzzle we figure out the more we start to see how askew our day to day reality is.

so for every awakening soul there is bound to be a bout with depression and your dark side as you begin to see what you are missing and see the world of disconnected zombies that we live in for what it is.

so my next goal is to find a best friend to have a deep soul connection with and start a new chapter in my life. i think this will be the conqueror of my depressions. we will see...

peace,
foo

[FooSnik]

running ducking weaving gives you a kind of high for a while but when your legs give out the sudden stop and thud is not pleasant every thing your running from catches up all at once and takes a piece of you and you are unable to run even if you want to.

richard in his last days slept with a hand pistol next to his bed apparently afraid of that exact same thing occuring some things just aint funny at the time only after you forgive the event let go of the pain and look back can you laugh about it.

i like how you sum up so much truth in such a small amount of words, conundrum.

i guess the silver lining to old age is that you start to slow down and it gets harder and harder to run from your dark side. the things you fear most eventually catch up with you. when i was younger i could take hard hits and bounce back like a rubber band. shake it off and continue running again. finding freedom at the bottom of a bottle or in the high you get from dozens of other things. sooner of later you have to face it.

i am sorry to hear that richard pryor, one of my idols and role models, never could face his demons. but to his credit, from my understanding, he had some huge demons. john lennon, hendrix and many others went down in flames.

but i refuse to go out like that. and i think the answer is in true connectedness with other people. not just the superficial kind.

thanks, conundrum, for making me think once again. :)

[conundrum]

is a deep soul connection with other people. and the more i understand this the more noticeable it is that most people around me are so disconnected and caught up in their ambition to gain material wealth and safety.


looking for joy and happiness in all the wrong places perhaps or wanting a rose while not wanting the thorns all part of the same plant.


i am sorry to hear that richard pryor, one of my idols and role models, never could face his demons.

he stood up and faced them every time he walked on stage.. the problem with that kind of light or attention is that all the have nots and want to be that will do almost any thing to get it and most likely would not like it if they were that or went through what he did to be in such a position.


and i think the answer is in true connectedness with other people. not just the superficial kind.

i think the answer is

how did you come to that conclusion ? have you tested experienced that or is it just theory ?

[FooSnik]

looking for joy and happiness in all the wrong places perhaps or wanting a rose while not wanting the thorns all part of the same plant.



he stood up and faced them every time he walked on stage.. the problem with that kind of light or attention is that all the have nots and want to be that will do almost any thing to get it and most likely would not like it if they were that or went through what he did to be in such a position.



i think the answer is

how did you come to that conclusion ? have you tested experienced that or is it just theory ?

are you reading my mind?? it is like you are filling in the blanks that i wish i had said. i have long since lost my ability to edit my posts because they are scared of me or something... i don't know.

because i have a few role models that made it threw life for this reason. they had a best friend in which they knew that with this one person in their lives there would be no power struggle. they looked after each other, trusted each other, and recharged each others batteries.

when one fell the other was there to pick the other one up. knock the dust off his shoulder and tell him to go back and get 'em.

i have friends like this. but it took me a while to understand this. i am 32 years old now. and i was so tense and confused from the way i grew up that i couldn't see the light of day.

but i have to pat myself on the back because i still have the other half of my life left. and i am not even being arrogant. it was my mom that screwed me up and it was my mom that saved me. i know it sounds cryptic but it is true.

anyway... all it takes is one true friend that you trust to make it through this world i feel. i haven't done it myself but i have friends that did so i can say that my word is 100% true.

[Volunteer]

noppy: my understanding is that a person’s shadow is the same thing as their dark side, and also the same as what meditation traditions often call “the ego”.

in your earlier post i believe you said that you talk to your shadow. i thought your post also implied that you are able to see or “feel” your shadow clearly. my apologies if that isn’t true – i misunderstood you.

i believe that learning to identify our shadow in detail is very much a central part of the journey to inner/personal/spiritual freedom. sometimes the shadow / dark side comes out of hiding, fighting against whatever we are doing. at least then we can clearly notice what kinds of thoughts and feelings the shadow was “selling” us as being the truth, and what kinds of our “buttons” it was pushing and manipulating. although at such times we feel we are going through hell and that everything is falling apart, we need to watch carefully then (i suspect this is what jesus’ parables about “watching” and “staying awake” were about), because at such times it is really our shadow that is falling apart and going through hell.

it seems to be necessary to eventually get to the point where we remember every major emotional we have had in our lives, and especially in our childhood. that way, we know what the structure of our shadow is built out of, what its history has been.

eventually we need to be able to ignore it. but we can’t do that unless we can learn to tell the difference between what it wants and what you call the “soul” wants.

[arjuna]

isn't it great that there are "others" when we need them just at the perfect "moment" in our being ? oneness is

[4D+Bound]

hello everyone!

i was wondering if anyone here has confronted, preparing to, or in the process of confronting the umbral self that care to share their experiences? i understand that this is a very personal and very likely sensitive topic for those going through or struggling with their spiritual awakening. maybe this topic could be a haven for us to release and let go of our negative energies to strengthen ourselves for our next bout against the umbra. it could also help prepare some adepts for their own confrontations even though i understand that every complex's process is unique.

true universal love and light

[moderator note: umbral self is equal to shadow self, but much more eloquent]

[Cece4]

i am right in the middle to doing some shadow work because i know time is short and i need to get my house in order due to this being the end of a cycle. it started after a reading i had that advised me to do some regression work to deal with my past traumas and this channel gave me what past lives and present traumas were holding me back. i am a retired psychologist so i knew i needed to get this done.
in the regression i dealt with some past lives that were blocking me. after about the third session i was showed my lives that were very dark. i realized on a soul level i have had dark and light lives and i knew i had to identify my dark traits and forgive myself for having them and then to let go of the emotional charge that life/person had on me. now when i see a person that i dislike or annoys me the very trait that bothers me i know i i have acted in the same way. that trait i need to accept as part of my personality without judgement. then i decide if that behavior separates me from people to brings me closer to people and i then deicide if i want to continue to act in that manner. if not, i attempt to not judge or make that behavior bad because i have come to realize i choose to have that experience. it has freed me from the victim stance, blaming others and harder still blaming and not forgiving myself for that behavior. i has not been easy but i feel so much freer and lighter since now i don't have all of these emotional charges from present/past lives to carry around.

[estopatitiana]

steps to confronting and overcoming your so called "shadow self" 1st acknowledge it exists. step 2 ask it what i wants to say about you, let it say it until it completely runs out, during this imagine it as a tiny seperate being with a tiny voice. once you are satisfied it has said all it can say which may take seconds minutes or even hours, say "stop, cancel, cancel" out loud then squash it. then to replace what was just eliminated think of thoughts that are a step up from what you just said.

it goes something like this "i hate myself and want to die" do the exercise...then replace with something like this "i may not be my most favorite person but i definelty want to live."

what you have just done is use the power of your mind to cancel and eliminate a well engrained program or neuropathway thats embedded into your subconcious and keys in during certain situations. if you are a very negative person, and anyone who is obsessed with shadow work definelty is, you may be doing this all the time almost constantly for weeks, then eventually after clearing so many negative programs you will shift towards the positive, you will reach that tipping point.

also surround yourself with positive people, positive music, and say positive things to yourself throughout the day. at first it will undoubtetly feel strange, even horrible, but over time you will start to beleive what your saying and you will shift.

think of it this way, if you continue to think the way youve always thought you will continue to get what youve always got!

[RoBoLoGY]

hello everyone. i signed up for the site a few months ago, been through my own personal hell, faced some demons, and figure now is a good time to participate in this site. the members of this forum are indeed well researched and in tune with that which we cannot see. my recent journeys have led me to my own conclusion on this topic, i'm curious to see what the members of this site think.....

i've heard some say this earth is quarantined, i've heard some says aliens don't really interfere because they know that we as a species, humanity, has to go through this and it cannot be stopped. i've also heard religious references that 'lucifer' (i use the term loosely) would reign for 2000 years ... 2012 is awfully close to 2000 years, and i believe is the end of lucifer's reign here. we all have insecurities, ego's, flaws ... 'demons' if you will. what we see as reality on this earth, all the pain, oppression, suffering, poverty, disease ... the reflection of ourselves as a whole ... lucifer is indeed a force to be reckoned with. he has no control over our souls, our consciousness, but over time many traps have been set and we as a people have fallen for every one of them it seems. lucifer did not mold this world, we did, we let him in. human hands chopped forests, human hands drilled for oil, human hands signed treaties and laws, we've made our bed, we were duped. each passing generation seems to become more numb, more dependent on technology, more lazy, and ultimately less human. can it really get any worse? it seems obvious to me that something has to give. humanity simply can't go on this way, it's a system that was built to collapse, and everything is happening right on time, the stars are not wrong. i've heard some say earth is 'hell', i believe there's truth to that. it's not hell in a raging inferno sort of way, but it is lucifer's kingdom and he is indeed reigning supreme among the masses. troops are just 1 example of how the good inside of man has been manipulated by powers unseen and used for forces of evil, it's a complex and ingenius game and i can see how it would work.

i believe right now that all of us are being shown are worst fears, our own personal demons that to this day are still leeching off of our souls. it's sink or swim time. i think 2012 is indeed lucifer leaving this realm and he's trying to take as many souls as he can with him to go infest another rock going around a star filled with troubled young souls. lucifer is a punk, he prays on the weak, and let's face it ... humanity, people, are barely above monkeys, we're rookies in this game called life, in this space suit and the engine driving it. we've been had, time to own up to it. i've had demons and insecurities i've ran from for years, wondering the whole time why my world around me was collapsing. i convinced myself there was no job for me, and the reason it was hard for me to be around people was because it was their fault, they were the ones with problems, i was fine. after enough was enough i finally put all that aside, and realized they were nothing but fears that started in the mind, while the whole time i was ignoring my heart. so i went out and applied everywhere, didn't care where, with the honest intention of not caring about money or pay, but just to get out and the world and share this gift with others. i landed a job at a grocery store and told myself i wanted to be a kind person first, employee second. since then i smile at the customers, talk to them, take time to help them, and remind them that not every soul has been confiscated by darkness on this planet. and honestly, since then, my life has changed and the job is going great. years of running and looking to the skys for help got me no where, but once i finally became the prayer, became the example, and got over my own made up fears my life changed instantly. my soul feels at ease, i can feel the presence of light around me, guiding me. i believe those being will extend a helping hand to anyone that asks, but they're not going to carry us the whole journey.

so, in closing, does anyone else agree w/ my lucifer example, and also agree that right now we're all facing our own personal hell and it's sort of the 'final test' before 2012. it's easy to point the finger at others, the hardest thing to do is take a look in the mirror and beat your own demons. i think those who do, will move on to the post 2012 that brilliant minds such as david have spent time decoding and listening to guidance from above. i'm looking forward to talking with all of you. i know what i know, is only what i think i know, and what better place to talk about it than the internet, which is truly the last open exchange of ideas and information on this planet. ok, i'll stop rambling :), thanks for reading!

[Darklord1234]

the best source on jung is jung.not trying to be a jerk but my advice is go to the source and muddle through if you have to.put in the work.read it more than once if necessary.difficult? perhaps.worth it? most definitely.

[Vanya]

rob
i've been thinking about your lucifer-thing. actually i thought about these things many years ago now.
my thoughts then were: lucifer is doing humanity a huge service.

i'll backtrack: lucifer, the name means "carrier of light" (or sth like that), and he was the grandest angel. but he refused to worship humanity, so he was sent tumbling.
being who i am, i sort of (used to) empathize with lucifer on this. why would anyone worship humanity?!

so lucifer carries the light. but it is the light found after having sifted through the darkness. it's as if lucifer is a black cape of darkness, the darkness found within each one of us. when we have confronted each of our demons hidden within this black cape, we find the light. but only after understanding that we created these demons ourselves.

as above so below. god (and we are all little "godlets") created humans (our selves through each incarnation). lucifer (an aspect of our self) refused to worship the human, (i.e. love the human part of itself) hence creating all the stuff we struggle with on this planet and as individuals, all of it based in fear of being without our divine birthright, which is being love, joy and happiness in abundance; such as greed, power-hunger, oppression, anger, hate - the works.

but we (as godlets and as parts of the divine vibratory ocean that is god) did all this on purpose. we knew what would happen. and we did it because we wanted to. because we knew that as we go through all these illusions of darkness, we find our light and we can shine even stronger than we could before we went there.

through lifetimes each of us have played the roles of other people's demons. we have worn the masks of lucifer. we have had to look at mirrors (other people reflecting us) while wearing the mask of lucifer. we had to confront the darkness in ourselves and in others.

it is when we learn to see behind these masks of lucifer and love what is behind there (like in the fairytale of beauty and the beast) that we truly start growing. and as you start doing that, in my personal experience, the masks shatter and your soul takes flight. and you are stronger than you ever were.

i know my personal story is long and strange. i have memories of many lifetimes, and i have dug deep to find some of the first ones. i was part of a group soul, a group consciousness. we were magnificent as we wandered through eternity in bliss and continual ascension. we were about to leave earth. i turned around and fell out of the group consciousness. i was in love with earth and wanted to stay and share my love with humanity.
it was a deep plunge. and nothing turned out the way i had thought it would, on that kind of consciousness level i was then.

i've spent many lifetimes encountering the masks of lucifer. and for several lives now i have been on the path of forgiveness and reconciliation. it has all been very emotional and sort of expansive.

but if i compare the tender, very innocent, loving, wonderous being i was before the "fall" and the one i am now, i don't regret my walk through lucifer's cape of illusions.

when i see my path ahead and who i am about to become, i am on the path to becoming a much stronger and greater light than i was when i was part of the group. then i shone as part of a whole. now i can shine my own light.

so lucifer has actually played an important role in my growth as a soul. and for that i thank him.

thank you for the illusions and the masks, so that i may truly learn of my own divinity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juuns3vcpnk

[FooSnik]

anybody else heard that lucifer is just another "group soul complex", like ra, except lucifer is appointed with pushing us into our shadow side? which is often uncomfortable, but is actually, in the end, a great service for humanity.

facing our dark side is only as uncomfortable as we make it... as i've learned from my own experience.

take these guys who were born into or lived in material wealth for some time and then suddenly lose it all. they often become suicidally depressed. this could be seen as a negative event. however, their higher self obviously deemed it a worthy endeavor for them to take, and probably a virtuous journey for their soul in the long run. so it needn't be taken so painfully. it is all in how you look at it.

if you have faith and go with the flow that all is perfect then nothing need be painful, really.

but this takes a great deal of wisdom.

[MarkM]

i came across a transcript of an old dw reading today, done while he was still giving readings for clients. i felt this reading to be a good match for the shadow work thread, so here it is!

as with so many other of dw's channeled readings, this one really seems to be addressing all of us, not just this particular client...

http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/readings-in-text-form/33-12203-reading-healing-the-violence-against-the-self

upon reading i reflected on my feeling that the resistance i encounter in life is only the mirroring of the resistance i give to myself.

i'd suggest that our lingering hardships are evidence of our ultimate identity as the one infinite creator, as our missteps - as well as our triumphs - enacted as we grow towards recognition of this identification, are reflected by the very universe itself. all that which we can experience and sense may well be projections of ourselves, cast upon a very large screen indeed.

ascension is indeed a choice, and to come to full unconditional acceptance of who we are right now, all which is in our lives, and all which takes place 'out there' on the bigscreen, may necessitate for each of us personally the changing of the entire universe as we experience it, as we have perhaps outgrown the need to experience a 3d universe.

perhaps it is the very struggle with aspects of 3d itself which perpetuates it in our experience.

as we find ourselves coming back to ourselves continually while we struggle in a place of hardship and sorrow, with the universe ever returning to us more of exactly that which we struggle against, we often wonder how to bridge over to a more loving place.

it may be that simply stopping the struggle and letting go of anything less than full acceptance of ourselves and our surrounding world can serve as the bridge.

so many of us are seeking truth, and discovering the 'story behind the story' of the neg controlling factions... economic hegemony, environmental degradation, theft of natural resources and the people's hard earned wealth, haarp, chemtrails, alien 'agendas', our unveiled true human history... you name it - the list goes on. many of us have felt some real outrage, and have galvanized to counter these things and worked to stem the tides of criminal global corruption.

this is all well and fine, and serves to introduce yet others to the awakening to what's been going on in secret, and in some cases leading to greatly accelerated personal growth and spiritual seeking.

third density is necessarily a place of struggle/counter struggle, and is perfectly designed to serve as a place for evolving souls to come eventually to choose love, acceptance, and even gratitude for the world as it is and ourselves as we are.

as everything here in this world is a reflection of us, maybe everything is working perfectly and nothing is wrong with the world from a spiritual perspective. imo, nothing has gone wrong at all.

to come to a place of just... knowing we and the world are perfect just as we are, a place of letting go of all struggle and letting go the incessant striving to replace that which seems imperfect with something closer to perfect - simply allowing ourselves to be who we are now, warts and all, may allow the dust to settle long enough to see a beautiful new horizon.

perhaps it's less about figuring how to get there than it is about stopping fussing and laying still long enough to see it's been there all along!

spiritual 'growth' can be very trying as we come up through the third density courses, but maybe at the end of it all it doesn't need to be complicated... ;) mark

[Tenet Nosce]

i believe right now that all of us are being shown are worst fears, our own personal demons that to this day are still leeching off of our souls. it's sink or swim time.

if this is hell, it ain't so bad! ;)

but seriously, i feel moved to comment here because i definitely concur with what you are observing. there are a lot of people going through their own personal hell right now. i would only offer the viewpoint that it is not everybody.

according to my understanding, the amount of time perceived between a thought/feeling and its physical manifestation is rapidly collapsing toward zero. for those who have not sufficiently disciplined their minds and cleared out their emotional "closets" this might look very chaotic, overwhelming, and frightening.

but it is not at all necessary. some fifteen years ago is when i first personally got a clue that this was coming down the line. it was then that i made the conscious choice to get done what i needed to get done on the inside, while i still had plenty of time. of course i didn't know for sure if there was anything to this whole 2012 thing. still don't know for sure. but i figure hey... facing your personal demons has to pay off somehow, right?

as for lucifer, whomever they are or wherever they came from, the offering made is a choice. a choice to deny that the individual is a part of a much larger life, to which they are irrevocably connected.

i believe lucifer's message goes like this: what we perceive to be god is like some kind of cosmic cannibal of souls. god eats whole galaxies of souls for breakfast. it doesn't love you or care about you as an individual. it only cares about the cosmic food that it is cultivating. little mini gods in the galactic soil.

only there is a problem. since you have the entire potential of god within you, god needs to convince you that it is actually benevolent and looking out for your best interests. see god isn't all-powerful... you are equally as powerful. god does not have to the power to harvest and eat you against your will. this is why it needs to trick you into surrendering your will unto it. moreover, god is desperate that you do so, for if you were to realize your true identity you could become so powerful as to destroy god, and liberate all of the captive souls.

so when others say to you that god is an all powerful and benevolent being, they are lying. they have been deceived. and what is more, we can prove it. look at us, we have refused to be eaten and we couldn't be more delighted. we are masters of our universe! we have accepted our true identities as the immortal beings we are. we are a living testament to the truth that god is neither all-powerful, nor loving. watch as we torture god's children and it does nothing to stop us...

... and so on and so forth. quite alluring. so is lucifer right? well in a way, yes. the law of one says that both perspectives are true. that is the choice.

so in offering the choice, is lucifer secretly doing the will of god? well, that depends on which side of the choice you are coming from. such is the paradox.

bringing this back to the thrust of the original thread, i would suggest that this is an excellent place to begin "shadow work". this is the paradox from which the shadow emerges. i would also offer that, as long as one is in this octave the shadow will continue to exist in some form. it is not something we overcome, for it is part of the very fabric of reality.

overcoming one's shadow has more to do with transforming it into your ally by using it as a tool to remember who you really are. when you are in that state of remembrance, life no longer appears as a hell to you. despite the fact that you may be surrounded by the shadows of others, you are no more tricked into believing that they are real. even if they continue to believe in them.

as for people who are still mired in the shame and guilt of the past- those things can be put aside at any moment. any moment is the right moment. not after you've been "good" for one day, or one year, or ten years, etc. right now. if you are going to step into something greater, there has to be a moment which becomes that moment when you stopped feeling bad about whatever wrongs you perceive to have been done to you, or through you. this is the fruit of doing the shadow work. this is what transforms hell into heaven and unlocks the door to leave it altogether.

if you choose. or you can stay here, if you like. ;)