Accident or sacrifical energy transfer?

[dazcox]

last night i was driving home from work, it was about twilight and i had just started to offer a prayer for this girl i had just learned was bravely carrying a 'miracle baby' to term.

as i asked god to help her and her baby, something hit my car. after stopping i found that a deer had broken it's neck by running into my car.

do i remember correctly what our main man david wilcock said about sacrifices, that they transfer 'energy' from one soul to another?

is it possible that my intent caused the poor animal to sacrifice itself to help save that baby?

[christincook]

this is really wild. i don't know the answer. maybe it lies in the way the prayer was said? i said a prayer for someone the other day, and ended up having a very suprising negative encounter with them and their loved one, regarding a gesture that i had made; which i thought was a loving and caring one, and made from a loving and caring place.

i do believe that we do "give" our energy away sometimes when we do things like this. it makes me wonder about some things... like when to leave things alone, and let them happen, no matter what the outcome may be. i guess we can't see the underlying karmic reasons for their happening, and maybe if the prayer goes against the karma, the act takes the energy away from somewhere else. i guess its like what david was talking about the other day on myth or logic, about putting a call out to the universe being a dangerous thing; because you may actually get what you want, at the expense of it not actually being what is needed.

"our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. thy kindom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

[Deerclan]

i do not know the answer, but your post did spark some feelings in me. i will try to put them into words. here goes.

your intention is strong. so is the love that comes with it. your request was heard, and an answer was sent - although not in a way you expected. please do not confuse your tender feelings of grief for the deer with your feelings for the child. if i am not mistaken, your question seems tinged with self-criticism for the thing that you asked. self-criticism is not necessary. what you asked for was noble, or else it would never have been heard in the first place.

the most important feeling i have is, *if* the event truly was an answer to your request (as seems apparent), there is no blame or fault in you for it. i cannot speak for the deer clan, and yet i feel i know that the loving hearts of those creatures are models for how humans should love one another. *if* the animal gave its life for the reasons you say, then it is an occasion for celebration, not for sadness, in the same way as it is cause for celebration whenever one human sacrifices his life for a comrade on the battlefield. we shed tears for them, but we also give the congressional medal of honor for such actions. if you are able to serve to catalyze love between those dimensions in that way, then i say you are loved and honored by what happened.

that is what my heart says.

honestly, my head still does not know what to make of it.

blessings on you.


"is it possible that my intent caused the poor animal to sacrifice itself to help save that baby?"

[dazcox]

i forgot to mention the rest of the story, as i waited for the police to come and file the report (it's the law in illinois) i noticed that the dead deer had perfectly clean little hooves. the ground was damp and muddy as the snow had been melting all day and i figured the bottom of her feet, at least would be dirty but they were perfectly clean.

i looked up an saw orion the hunter in the sky and then read this today

the seri people of northwestern mexico call the three stars in the belt of this constellation hapj (a name denoting a hunter) which consists of three stars: hap (mule deer), haamoja (pronghorn), and mojet (bighorn sheep).

the guy who lived across the street took the deer to make into jerky so the body was not wasted.

[ds37ds]

i do not have an answer to this either and even if i or anyone did, who is to say that it would be the correct or incorrect one.

i agree with everything that has been written. the intent that lies behind everything we do is the decisive factor in the outcome to whatever it is applied to. we may have the highest and noblest of intentions but are we in fact interfering with some natural order or free will?

with reiki for example or any other type of healing i imagine, it is continually stressed that healing energy should not be offered unless it is specifically requested. if, however,you wish to be of service you must ask for permission either from the person or the higher self of the person in question. a clear yes or no is usually received. in some cases, and this has been happening to me quite a lot recently, if there is any confusion as to whether whatever i'm thinking of or about to do is interfering with free will, i get a slight tinge of negativity. it's something like being pricked by a thorn when you handle a rose in the wrong way. this makes me stop and think more carefully about my intent and weigh up the potential effects that may follow.

on the other hand, offering unconditional love and healing through prayer or meditation without a specific target or object is a different matter. it will radiate and be received by whoever it is being requested by at the time.

dazcox, your intent was loving and came from a good place.

love to all
ds

[Deerclan]

... i noticed that the dead deer had perfectly clean little hooves.

clean hooves. hmmmm.

there is also the traditional outlook among native american tribes that an unusual encounter with an animal signals that animal as your totem or power animal. deer is peaceful and receptive, quietly attentive and highly aware of it environment, perceptive and highly cognizant of nuances. would that perhaps mean anything to you?

[dazcox]

clean hooves. hmmmm.

there is also the traditional outlook among native american tribes that an unusual encounter with an animal signals that animal as your totem or power animal. deer is peaceful and receptive, quietly attentive and highly aware of it environment, perceptive and highly cognizant of nuances. would that perhaps mean anything to you?
i would totally relate to having a deer as my totem. i seem to randomly paint them often too.

[morawaj]

christincook,

i just read your reply which you closed with the opening lines to the our father prayer. specifically the part you pointed out "thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".

i just started reading the book "seth speaks - the eternal validity of the soul" like two days ago. one of the key points of the book is that as many of you know or have heard before, we make our own reality. that being said your pointing out this part of the our father really hit home! i was raised catholic and have said this prayer soooo many times. but as a youngster we just don't pay attention to things sometimes. i sure paid attention this time i read it. thanks for you quoting that. you timing was perfect!

peace,
john

[Deerclan]

i would totally relate to having a deer as my totem. i seem to randomly paint them often too.

it brings me a rush of happiness to meet a deer brother (or sister - i generally can't tell the guys from the gals here, and it generally doesn't matter except for this little awkward matter of pronouns and such).

finding deer within you can bring you untold inner riches. for me, deer is the most alive of all the animals i know. there are many types of deer, from the little red deer in england to the humongojamus caribou, moose, and elk.

i have a little suggestion. [please pm deerclan for book name]

in fact, reading it is not substantially different from reading dw or the ra material. here's an excerpt :

"[we] must try to use the [peace] pipe for mankind, which is on the road to self-destruction. we must try to get back on the red road of the pipe, the road of life. we must try to save the white man from himself. this can be done only if all of us, indians and non-indians alike, can again see ourselves as part of this earth, not as an enemy from the outside who tries to impose its will on it."

[Tenet Nosce]

wow that is super strange. . . i don't have much to add on the deer symbology.

however, one thing that popped in my mind when reading your post has to do with the direction of energy in prayer. i am reminded of reading once about how hyperdimensional beings hang out around churches and other religious centers and scoop up all the energy that is being offered up for their own purposes. whether or not that is true, i don't know, but it does allude to the fact that the true source is within you, not outside of you.

similar to many healing techniques that attempt to direct energy outward that can backfire on the healer, true spiritual healing is accomplished by connecting with the source within, and then acknowledging that the same source resides in the other to whom the healing is intended. then, you simply get out of the way and let source decide on the best method.

perhaps this mother and her unborn child have called this challenging experience to themselves for some unknown purpose, and offering energy for healing would interfere somehow?? :confused:

or maybe, it was a signal from the universe to remind you that birth and death are two sides of the same coin. .

[christincook]

[quote=deerclan;44516

there is the traditional outlook among native american tribes that an unusual encounter with an animal signals that animal as your totem or power animal. deer is peaceful and receptive, quietly attentive and highly aware of it environment, perceptive and highly cognizant of nuances. would that perhaps mean anything to you?[/quote]

hi deerclan :)

i am just wondering if you have any more information that you could share with us on totems? i would really like to find out what mine is...

[dazcox]

perhaps this mother and her unborn child have called this challenging experience to themselves for some unknown purpose, and offering energy for healing would interfere somehow?? :confused:

or maybe, it was a signal from the universe to remind you that birth and death are two sides of the same coin. .

well, i didn't have much of a choice but to offer a prayer, i barely know the mother to be and just learned of her precarious position minutes before the deer hit my car, i have been blessed with empathy and always try to find something i can do that's positive, if only for my own sake (in this case offer a prayer to send some positive energy because i know (from david wilcock and teachers of his stripe) that intent is everything.)

i don't think i can interfere with whatever purpose the mother and child are experiencing (god's will, to use a phrase) but i do think they have a (perhaps) secondary purpose of inspiring our positive energy.

i had the choice to not pray for her but that seems less positive and i made a promise to myself to take the more positive choice if i can.

[Berry Chastain]

it is an undisputable truth that intention will bring about results. it is also true that intention should be made with very clear understanding of what is being desired and intended. i have found that it is important when making intentions to qualify them with the phrase, "or something better, for the highest and greatest good of the universe, myself and all involved." and then give thanks and affirmation for its already having been achieved. in this way there is no infringement on the free will of anyone involved in the intention.

in regards to the deer, it is/was always traditional that the native american hunter when preparing to harvest a deer would say a prayer to it, asking for permission to kill it and thanking it for its giving itself so freely for the sustanence of him or his tribe. the same when cutting a tree, or any other time that something was taken from the earth family. permission and gratitude were always part of the indian's way of life.

[Deerclan]

hi deerclan :)
i am just wondering if you have any more information that you could share with us on totems? i would really like to find out what mine is...

i'd be happy to, christin. if you can tell me what type information you're looking for, that would help. if you're looking for general information on totems i guess i can post it here, since this is "general discussion" and it might be of general interest.

however, if you're looking for more personal information such as what your totem is, i'd imagine the moderators would would prefer that be done by pm. i could do both, general info here & personal info by pm. mods,could you please clarify? i'm still new here, and still learning the rules.

incidentally the traditional view on individual totems is that they are extremely personal matters. some were public knowledge, such as the name of the clan a person belonged to. others are very personal in nature, and could reveal strengths and weaknesses you might prefer the public not know.

waiting for the mods' response, i am

deerclan

[mod note: thanks for your displayed discretion, deerclan - please proceed as you suggest...;)]

[Deerclan]

"indisputable"?


it is an undisputable truth that intention will bring about results. it is also true that intention should be made with very clear understanding of what is being desired and intended. i have found that it is important when making intentions to qualify them with the phrase, "or something better, for the highest and greatest good of the universe, myself and all involved." and then give thanks and affirmation for its already having been achieved. in this way there is no infringement on the free will of anyone involved in the intention.

[MarkM]

to me it seems that an intent, in order for change to occur, (a result) needs to be followed through with action. our actions don't always follow our intent, and our intent doesn't always result in action. perhaps what is indisputable is that action will always produce a result.

on a finer note, one's intent may yet be seen to invariably result in an effect, if one considers the premise that a thought (an intent being a thought) resonates throughout the consciousness field and is potentially within the province of experiencing in general by life/awareness. perhaps the theorizing, for example, of one man may be picked up by others and act as food for thought by another, and result in more of a crystallized or realized product.

here, its possible that the notion of a social memory complex may educate each person's sense of being an island unto themselves, totally private in respect to their thoughts, into realizing that we truly share each other's intrinsic being in that the intent of one life form is shared by all; verging into a territory of an increasingly becoming state wherein we may come to realize that there is no intrinsic barrier between seeming individualized entities as regards intent and actualization.

to me it seems that thoughts are things, and no thought you can have doesn't have reverberant truck with others, albeit that they are formatted and augmented to fit the other's observant paradigm.

consciousness is one, and each of us relies on the one consciousness field in order to partake of experience. every thought you entertain is the property of the universe, and has been and will be expounded upon by everyone else. i personally take great comfort in this 'psychic' awareness, knowing that i am never alone, and always in the company of everyone - knowing that even though my being does not rely on this mind of mine to define my existance, my mind is full of the thoughts and hopes and dreams of all of you - this is great comfort and solace,, knowing that if my intentions are not always followed through, someone will make some use, and benefit from my experience. psychically. as dw and ls have said, there's only one of us here.

i've written this, feeling i've not fully put into words what i've intended. all good! as i never have succeeded in doing that, hoping that a flare of intent is picked up by others intuitively. much of my own intent is unrealized, but may act as a torch passed, and taken to better heights by you. what is undisputable in my mind is that all of our being is accessible to others, not barring any pre-mandated limitation. intent and other such powerful modems not realized by one can be freely adopted and usurped and re-worked by those who are in all truth ourselves - nothing is wasted. mark

[MarkM]

not my will but thine, o lord... or self! let the bigger considerations of our hopes prevail. i wish that my biased desires be maintained as being secondary to the betterment of the all. may we all take the road of choosing what we would hope for, and get past our bitching about the conditions we would rather not entertain...mahatma gandhi, (paraphrased) 1948

i feel that the big message is about intent - do we dwell upon the negative, or dwell upon what we hope will come about? mankind has the creator class about him. something of the creator class, here, big time.

i suggest that we all focus on the pie in the sky utopia that so many tell us is unreasonable - our power as co-creators is sooo undersung. do we focus on that which is for so long known to be undesireable? or focus on that which may be? here we have a great potentiality of inspiring lightworkers to focus on the positive - to me, it's all about where we choose to focus through. let us build our world by focusing on love.

our heritage as man has the untapped potential to totally re-create the experience of this world. and the more of us that knows this, the better. our power together is that which is disparaged by the powers that be. so much invitation to focus on the negative realities, yet our power lies in focusing on the positive. mark

[Bill]

mark,

what, a sudden bolt of inspiration? amazing, and amazingly well said. thanks for the reminder of what is, and what shall be, as we choose.

you have helped remind me of our creative power... time to start using it as we truly intend.

[Deerclan]

hi deerclan :)
i am just wondering if you have any more information that you could share with us on totems? i would really like to find out what mine is...

all right, christin, having gained the approval of one of our kind moderators, i will now post some general information here about finding your totem.

there are different families of totems, including plant, animal, and mineral totems, but for the sake of this conversation we will limit ourselves to the animal totem.

identifying your animal totem begins with your own desire to do so. the rest is to be alert to ways the universe (a neutral term, although you could say god, or great spirit, etc.) hears and responds to you. the primary way that happens is through having an unusual encounter with an animal. i'll give an example.

my son was very good in the sport of lacrosse. one day i was watching him play, and he took the ball inbounds and ran through a broken field all the way, fired a shot into the goal, and scored. it was a moment of ecstasy for me to watch. while he was running, i thought (with a tear in my eye), "that kid runs like a deer!" it was the combination of power and grace i was seeing. so what happened? i followed him in my car back to his off-campus apartment through a rural area. i saw his tail lights come on, and wondered why he was stopping in the middle of a straight back-country road. then i saw it -- a deer hopped over the barbed wire fence and glided across a green pasture, sailing and gliding over a couple more fences. it's an incredible sight - like watching the wind incarnate.

we got to my son's apartment, and he got out of his car wide-eyed. he said, "dad, did you see that deer?"

i answered, "yeah, i saw him running across the pasture and jumping over the fences."

"no!" he said. "he was standing right in the middle of the road, looking straight at me! i stopped for him, and he just kept right on looking at me. then he ran off."

that is one example of an unusual encounter with an animal. keep in mind, though, that in contrast to tribal peoples, most people live in cities now, and it is harder to come across actual animals in an urban environment. however, animal images are still everywhere - on tv, magazines, at the zoo, in stories you read - and you can have an unusual encounter with an animal through its image. otherwise, everybody in the city would have to have a pigeon as his or her totem.

when your totem animal makes itself known to you, then you can strengthen the connection by paying attention to the animal. it's there to teach you some things. a big cat can teach you about strength, for instance, or stealth, or raw power. let yourself admire the beauty in the animal. go with your feelings. talk to the animal, either out loud or silently in your imagination. let the bond strengthen. if you are open, your totem will come to you. it will not hit you over the head with a hammer, ring your doorbell, call you on your cell phone, or send a courier to serve you with papers. but if you give the animal your love, respect, and desire to learn whatever it has to teach you, it will make itself known to you. your main job as a student is to pay attention. animals were here before us two-leggeds, and since the earth is one big family, that makes the animals our elder brothers and sisters. they know more than us, because they've been here longer than we have. there is a special flow of knowledge, energy, and love that comes through the planet, and even if we are originally from density 4,298, we can still learn about the loving energy that comes through the planet from our brother and sister animals. it is awesome. one word of caution, though -- if you learn to listen to your totem animal, it is entirely possible that you may come to understand the language of other animals. don't worry if the squirrels say rude things to you. it's just their way, and it helps us gain the necessary humility to learn from the planet and all her children.

so, that's three steps.

(1) acknowledge your desire.
(2) be alert to what the universe sends you.
(3) bond with your totem.

there is a lot more that we could say about #3. however, bonding with your totem and learning from your elder brother/sister is a lifelong process, and that is what makes it such an incredible journey. you will eventually outgrow your human teachers, but your totem will continue to love you and be with you forever. you may experience many different kinds of love during your life on earthy, but the love from your totem is truly one of a kind.

dazcox, i have not said anything about this before, but as your story unfolded in my mind, i saw the deer responding to your request for help. it knew it could not be of service in the physical world, so it translated. your feelings of grief about it helped to attune you to the deer. the feeling that came across was as if you asked for volunteers, and this deer jumped at the chance. that is the kind of love i see in these creatures. they are beautiful, and part of the reason is that they live in the mist, almost between two worlds. any time you see a deer, you are not just seeing the physical deer, but you are also seeing the spirit of the deer.

i can keep rambling, but it's time to quit. i'm happy to talk with anyone about this. if anyone wishes to talk about their personal totem, please follow the moderator's wishes and pm me about it. again, those conversations can get intensely personal. one final word -- my own native american roots are so distant from present-day family that i learned almost nothing about them through my upbringing. if there are any people here with stronger native american connections than i have, i defer to them. i have had the great privilege of spending time with some very generous native elders as teachers, and they have opened up great doors for me. i simply share, as they have shared with me. i do not claim to be an authority, for that takes a lifetime of learning. the main thing i share is the incredible joy that comes of re-connecting with the natural world through your totem animal. in my mind, my totems are my guardian angels, in animal form.

with that, i leave you to chase our animal brothers through the forest of you minds, and to wait in stillness for them to come to you in their wisdom.

peace.

deerclan

[transiten]

can't help hearing david mentioning the tibetan monks releasing their secret knowledge that "hope and fear" should be transcended....

so no more songs of "hope"...but.....please fill in;)

transiten

[Berry Chastain]

paul, my poor choice of words. i might better have used the word evident and qualified intention by saying pure intention. thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Deerclan]

berry, please accept my apologies as well. i am a would-be writer, and as a consequence i occasionally get a little too picky about the meaning of a particular word. i do get what you were saying about the power of intention. thanks for clarifying. anybody can question someone else's words, but it takes a strong and classy person to respond the way you have.

thanks!



paul, my poor choice of words. i might better have used the word evident and qualified intention by saying pure intention. thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Berry Chastain]

as they would say on darkover, par su servi.

[BrownCat]

perhaps the deer soul paid off the last of it's karmic weight with this sacrifice and was now ready to make the leap into the baby and will be rewarded with living out it's next life as a human being - this baby?

or the deer could have given its' life so the neighbor could have food for his family - and you the driver was just a catalyst so that other scenario could happen.

[dazcox]

perhaps the deer soul paid off the last of it's karmic weight with this sacrifice and was now ready to make the leap into the baby and will be rewarded with living out it's next life as a human being - this baby?

or the deer could have given its' life so the neighbor could have food for his family - and you the driver was just a catalyst so that other scenario could happen.

you know, it is a little presumptuous of me to assume i was the only one involved in the incident. i never considered that the deer might have some karmic debt to pay and chose to sacrifice it's life as a deer to help the baby.
that scenario makes it fitting that the deer looked so clean including her little feet!

[Deerclan]

you know, it is a little presumptuous of me to assume i was the only one involved in the incident. i never considered that the deer might have some karmic debt to pay and chose to sacrifice it's life as a deer to help the baby.
that scenario makes it fitting that the deer looked so clean including her little feet!

yes, it is extremely easy for us to misunderstand events involving animals, having grown up in the techno-culture that teaches us next to nothing about consciousness or animals.

people we now call shamans - which is actually an anthropologists' term (the original was medicine person, and 'medicine' had a different meaning) - used to travel to a specific place on the astral plane in search of a power animal to come be with a two-legged in need of help. i've been there, done that, with results that still astonish me to this day. my opinions here are based on that experience plus the writings of anthropologists who've documented a great deal about it. it seems to me that that particular deer wished to become the power animal of the persons you were praying for, in response to your prayers, and to do so, being in spirit form was a prerequisite. i could be wrong of course, and i'm just telling you some of the known patterns in the way such things happen. i've never before heard of an animal sacrificing itself to become someone's power animal, but it seems natural and obvious to me.

it might put things into a little more perspective if we take note of the situation of deer today. i don't know if it's a result of continued encroachment on their habitat or what, but *something* seems to be changing with them. this past summer, fall, and winter, i have seen more deer killed and lying on the side of the road than all the other deer i've ever seen put together. i don't know why. speculations? i've wondered if some of them chose to sacrifice themselves rather than face the slow agonizing death due to starvation.

i've also observed other peculiar deer behavior, starting last fall. i happened to mention one example to another guy in the sporting goods section of a store (i like to hang out there, despite having given up hunting because my feelings will no longer allow me to do it), and he commented with an obvious look of surprise on his face that he also had recently noticed some peculiar behavior in deer.

the upshot is that strange behavior in deer has been noted recently in my locale, enough for me to put confidence in it. who knows what they're thinking or doing? one evening my wife happened to be with me driving along a little country road (not so very rural, it was just outside a small city). i wondered aloud about it, and she commented, "maybe they want their land back." i laughed, but not just because it was funny. it seemed to fit the attitude of that deer. :)

paul

[dazcox]

the upshot is that strange behavior in deer has been noted recently in my locale, enough for me to put confidence in it. who knows what they're thinking or doing? one evening my wife happened to be with me driving along a little country road (not so very rural, it was just outside a small city). i wondered aloud about it, and she commented, "maybe they want their land back." i laughed, but not just because it was funny. it seemed to fit the attitude of that deer. :)

paulit has been a harsh winter here but the deer did not look starved, if anything it looked very healthy (for being dead!).

[dazcox]

the baby died :( i suppose it wasn't a sacrificial ebnergy transfer after all...:(

[Deerclan]

blessings and peace be with the mother and the child, as they navigate their way through this transition. i hope that at the very least, dazcox, all the positive thoughts of love and light that came from the people reading this thread will make this sad event easier to bear for everyone involved.

[Berry Chastain]

perhaps the deer was the spirit guide for the child, presenting herself for the purpose of accompanying the young one back to the higher plane.