masturbation and spiritual evolution

[marianok]

hello,

i still have issues with masturbation, i read or listen to some of david audios and i think he refered to it as it it was not recommended since it drains you of energy and mainly its not a good practice if we want to be happy and evolve spiritually in this world. i dont understand the reasons.
its one of those things that after i do it i dont feel worse nor better, i do feel a bit of guilt perhaps mainly because of my christian upbringing.. but if there was no one judging me , which rationally i dont think there is, i wouldnt feel its a bad thing to do it. ultimately you are not harming anyone.

can someone give me their opinion maybe it will clarify some things for me


i appreciate it.

thanks

[Strider44]

well when attempting to obe, i usually get aroused as i begin to feel the vibrations... its purely an energetic reaction but it stops the process and i cant relax. so masturbaing beforehand in this case is good. but tantra i beleive is about channeling semen up the spine and transforming it into a whole body/mind orgasm..

[conundrum]

the philosophy of taoism recommends males should not orgasm or only minimally and refer to it as the tiny death when a male does ejaculate, which sounds like a loss of life force or energy.

on the other hand woman can orgasm as many times as they like with out any loss of life force and they probably accumulate energy instead of losing any unless they fall pregnant.. woman lose energy through there menstrual cycle each month when they bleed.

if a male and female orgasm both at the same time while having sex there is no loss of energy the womans body absorbs the males seamen and the male absorbs the females juices through his penis.

the ra material suggests that there is an energy transfer occurs at a deeper level when the heart chakra is opened then the throat and third eye as the couple progress.

although there is nothing wrong with masturbation or any thing to feel guilty about if practiced there seems to be a loss of life force and metaphysical abilities if a male does it in an excess manner.
it may be similar to one man squandering his money recklessly and ending up poverty stricken while another saves and invests his money wisely living a comfortable life.

its neither good or bad its a choice the individual makes (free will)

[Jasper]

i've been known to 'knock one out' on the odd occasion, and never felt any guilt about it. i think the body needs to vent itself, and a good 'five finger shuffle' does suffice in absence of more a more mutual release.

henri charrière wrote a book on his experiences of penal servitude (i won't name the book, but it's french for butterfly). on entering his cell for 5 years of solitary, he was told not to wank because it would sap his strength.

the monty python team produced a book which depicted a gentleman pleasuring himself, the article was titled 'the right to mast'. one of the comments was from someone who stated, 'a quick one off the wrist keeps me in trim', hey, we all need to work out now and again to keep the old bod 'ascension ready'.

guys, feel free to 'bash the bishop', coz all religion is a scam, don't know how the ladies approach this issue.

[as a lady, this moderator finds this approach rather refreshing, but let us keep this loo-centered please:)]

[lvxseeker]

when you have sex with a partner there is an energetic exchange. this does not happen with solo sex. however not everyone has a partner so meeting your sexual needs can be difficult.

you could practice masturbation as an act of meditation which is far different than a quick release.

other options are to masturbate without ejaculation - that again raises your energetic level without losing it in climax.

also as an exercise see how many days (weeks) you can go without sex and observe how this is for you and how it changes your feelings, how you relate to people and life situations.

there are plenty of websites around that explore these areas. pm me if you are interested.

hope this helps

[Happystrings]

first, let's get rid of one myth. women do ejuculate. the penis is an outgrowth of the clitoris (and that is a great women's liberation lecture that can be done at a later date). no, semen is not emitted. :eek: however, the graffenberg spot (think that's its name, haven't referenced it in awhile) is not always stimulated during intercourse.

second, frequently when studying esoteric/mystical material the root chakra will be stimulated. although there is a "twitter" aspect to this topic :o, the truth is that mystical studies activate the chakras and the root chakra can be activated for a wide variety of reasons.

energy traveling up through the root chakra is transformed and transmitted to each of the other energy centers. (the wave pattern sometimes experienced in orgasm is very much like the experience of kundalini energy as it passes up the spine.)

sometimes this is overt enough to mimic sexual arousal. self-stimulation on a mild level is enough to relieve the energy. this has happened to me at all levels of study, although less frequently as i have aged and advanced in my work.

[johnasmodeus]

it's not a good/bad issue. do it all you want. i look at it like eating candy.

you have every right to eat a case of candy bars if you want, but you would be better off if you at least knew of the effect it would have on your short-term health.

the same goes for rubbing one out every now and then. we've been brainwashed into thinking of it as a moral issue, when in reality it's just a health issue. it's just one more way that organized religion gets us to hate ourselves, by teaching us that everything that comes naturally is bad/selfish/immoral and needs fixing/penance/salvation. and guess who has a corner on the supply of salvation?

resist their efforts to separate you from yourself. but at the same time, be aware of the effect that it has on your health, as per the recent reading that touched on that subject. the maple tree tap and all that.

[Philemon]

those of q'uo (channeled by carla) have recently addressed this topic, found at the end of the session, http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2008/2008_0322.aspx, and answering a question from a man named "g," as to whether "the activity known as masturbation expends vital energy that would otherwise be available for higher chakra activity."

those of quo respond, "there are two answers to this query, for there are two levels of masturbation. . . . the physical body of your species is naturally sexual and has a natural capacity for sexuality. if an entity does not masturbate, when the period of time has come in which sexual energy has been built up to the point where there is a need for release, masturbation will take place without any help; it will occur as a night dream or something of that nature. so, on that level, masturbating when there is a build-up of sexual energy and no appropriate outlet with another partner has little impact upon the amount of energy or essence of self that is preserved for metaphysical work. . . .

"however, it is equally true that sex itself may be used, whether in masturbation or sexual congress with another, to express positive polarity and the worship of the one infinite creator. the mind is preeminent in this matter. depending upon how a seeker feels about his sexuality, he may find it more skillful to work with refraining from sexual expression in terms of how he personally is impacted by the experience of reserving his sexual energy for winding of the magical coil. or, depending upon the entity and his personality and the way he feels about his body, he may find that it is more helpful to create a spiritually-dedicated masturbation in which the object is to experience that orgasm which is the steady state of the one infinite creator, that inexpressible and inutterable intensity of unconditional love that is the ecstasy at the heart of the experience of orgasm."

at the end of the reading, those of q'uo point out that the higher level of masturbation is open only to those with well-developed red-ray capabilities, i.e., those who are very conscious of and comfortable with their sexuality. for the full text, please see the link.

[Philemon]

in my previous post, i realize that i did not summarize the last part of q'uo's message so accurately as i might have. here is the full quote of the last paragraph:

"the body is the creature of the mind. we would encourage your friend not to focus upon sex until he has focused upon who he is, how he expresses his essence, how he feels is the most resonant way to manage his humanity in the sense of his red-ray sexuality." [the participant "g" asked the question of q'uo on behalf of a "friend."]

this advice has some of the same sense of the need for self-restraint that is advocated in david's readings.

[The Wonderer]

don't feel guilty if you can't resist masturbating. after all, we're only human. our sex drive is just as powerful as our will to survive and is very difficult to resist. i'm not going to lie, i masturbate every now and then. but not to the point where i become exhausted. if you can resist, then good for you. but don't feel too bad if you can't.;)

[Tenet Nosce]

it might be useful to recapitulate some basic truths here:

1. we are all one being living in an infinite sea of energy.

2. the concepts of "control" and "loss" are illusory, as they imply that there is some other being out there who can control us, and who can profit from our loss.

my thought is: if you masturbate, inhale smoke, eat animals, drink alcohol, or whatever it is that you do, it is all the creator experiencing itself. to suggest that refraining from certain activities will assist one's spiritual evolution is to miss the point of spiritual evolution, which is: to become aware of oneself as creator.

as far as i can fathom, the only spiritual value in abstinence of any form would be derived from using the impulse as a psychological trigger for increased awareness, however it would be just as effective to use indulgence as a trigger..

i suggest to begin with the mental disciplines. with proper training of the mind, one becomes increasingly aware that attempting to increase the physical health of the body, or to prolong one's physical existence, through physical means is probably the least effective method.

to be sure, there are things we can do with our body that might temporarily lower it's energy level, or health status. yet, to focus on that aspect exclusively is to miss the bigger picture.

healing of the body and increasing its energy reserves is most effectively accomplished by affirmation of the self as creator. moreover, there is no limit to the magnitude of the healing, or the frequency at which healings may occur.

consider the following statements:

- we have unlimited energy available to us from the universe, yet masturbation lowers how much of that energy is available to you.

- we are all one, yet eating some things and not other things will affect our ability to perceive oneness.

- spontaneous healing of cancers and even raising of the dead can occur through faith, but engaging in certain consciousness-altering activities will cause "permanent" damage to the body.

now, really, don't they sound just plain silly? :rolleyes:

[BJ ∞ Living in the Now]

consider the following statements:

- we have unlimited energy available to us from the universe, yet masturbation lowers how much of that energy is available to you.

- we are all one, yet eating some things and not other things will affect our ability to perceive oneness.

- spontaneous healing of cancers and even raising of the dead can occur through faith, but engaging in certain consciousness-altering activities will cause "permanent" damage to the body.

now, really, don't they sound just plain silly? :rolleyes:

wow. yes. enlightening vibrations emanate from these words. thank you.

[AL_EMT]

idk, every time it do it i feel guilty as hell because i think its strictly a service-to-self activity. i guess its a vice that one can live with, as long as:

service-to-others > service-to-self

[soup]

i have some impression that there is a lost white tantra practice which allows two people to "mind meld" without sharing physical contact in a conventional sexual way. maybe this is part of don's gift to the world.

possibly there's hazards in such practice which fundamentaly may relate to the need of balancing love/wisdom. in the materials there seems subtle clues which hint so, as if most green ray lessons are those of 4th density - difficult for those of lower density to manage.

i imagine that a love so strong may be difficult to detach from, easy to die for.


soup

[Sublimia]

you are quite right. i have had the same thoughts for yrs beeing from a strict religious background with moral codes etc. was vegetarian for 25 yrs, then a psychosis, after which i felt an urgent need to eat meat to ground the consciousness firmly on earth. this did not change my attitudes or values in the least. i still am who i am, one and the same.

sublimia

[lvxseeker]

idk, every time it do it i feel guilty as hell because i think its strictly a service-to-self activity. i guess its a vice that one can live with, as long as:

service-to-others > service-to-self

hi al_emt

you have the wrong idea around sto. sto is the path of acceptance; sts is one of control. if you feel the need for sexual release then accept that and use that energy as a way to the creator.

the lesson of this density is to find love in every moment.

also see daresh's post in this thread as a way to work with this
http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11887

good luck and have fun!

[Tenet Nosce]

idk, every time it do it i feel guilty as hell because i think its strictly a service-to-self activity. i guess its a vice that one can live with, as long as:

service-to-others > service-to-self

al_emt. . . perhaps you might find value in pondering whether feeling guilt is of any kind of service. . either to you or to others.

[soup]

i shared a theory once that "guilt and shame" seemed as separative thought constructs which formed a primitive sort of birth control. related to that was the idea that human culture evolves more slowly than technology. related seems the idea that guilt and shame can seem inferior emotional states which may be displaced in seeking study into the disciplines of personality ...there's a fragment #42 that talks about this generally in book 5.

personally, i've consider each individual as having finite energy bandwidth with inherent trade offs related so. a choice of running energy in one form may likewise imply a choice of running energy less in another form. it may be that one form incurs less bandwidth tax than another, allowing more bandwidth for other freewill choices and related confusions.


soup

[Sublimia]

dear soup,

i don´t follow your highly abstract writing. please formulate it with simpler words and expressions, as i´m highly interested in understanding your points.


sublimia

[starwhite]

absolutely! masturbation is a natural part of life. there is no reason to feel guilty for it. even though i am married and have a good sex life i still masturbate. its a natural urge.

[soup]

at one point, ra disclosed that they recognized the trio by way of a time/space spectral signature which was close to one they had recognized elsewhere. there was an analogy to the spectral reflectance of a paint chip. here seems the idea of color - that possibly the analogy extends to chakra colors, where different energy centers have distinguishable behavior. so i wonder if a group was able to find ra's spectral recipe, if they would likewise be able to serve others in some way. in order to understand and control one's chakra colors, they may need to seek so.

in simple terms, the act of self pleasuring may pertain to any and all chakra centers. if one soley focuses on the lower centers than they may inadvertantly sabatoge the development of their acuity in the higher ones and vice versus.


soup

[StarGirl]

as usual... a wonderfully open and sharing conversation... it is truely a gift, this forum, where such deep and meaning and intimate conversations have a space for expression.

there are so many ways to view all things.

with regards to masturbation, i think it depends on your intent and focus during the activity. what thoughts are in the mind when one is self pleasuring, i beleive tend to determine whiether or not the event is an energy raiser or an energy drain. for example, when i was in high school where i first began learning of this little exercise, i noticed i majority of my pre and postclimax thoughts were focused around feeling lonely or disastisfied on some level. i would tend to feel tired, maybe even drained and a bit sad afterwards.

at some point i decided to conciously shift that and wow! one begins to see all of the self judgement and self critcizing thoughts that are in the mind which come to light as you try to hold positive thoughts! that subconcious mind will kill ya! it was a lot of work and takes some will to be concious of your thoughts all the way through to and after climax and then notice what if anything comes afterwards...but it is my belief that those hidden thoughts (compacted and unnoticed) until cleaned out, if neccesaary, can really sabotage a beautiful sexual experience. once you have done the work, the stuff that comes afterwards can just be noticed to decide if you agree or not or how do you feel about that. choices. when you just get total silence (of the mind) and feelings of peace that is really nice. and your climaxes w/ or w/o partner will generally increase your energy level. at some point, you may notice that god (source/cosmos etc) is always there when you are alone or with partner and that you are with that so you are not ever alone so there is always energy exchange possible... between you are the universe.

i fear this may feel a bit preachy... so again it is just an idea and i share that maybe it might be helpful for some person. i wish everyone beautiful sexual expression in whatever peaceful way they choose.... be that with themselves, celibate or with others.

as to the ra material views on sexuality... i don't really know... i have not read enough of it. i will work on that. but i know for most materials brought in/ channeled/ created to help a planet, one must take into account the "profile", if you will, of the current accending population. something that might work just fine on artcurus going to xd shift, may not go so well here. so, recomendations and teachings are usually presented with this awareness in mind.

[as a side note: to quote a friend of mine, "i hate working with sexuality with popluations on water planets... people just lose their their minds!" (and on this planet, as best as i can tell... they often do.) he seems to feel sexuality on drier more desert like planets is much easier to deal with as emotions don't get so much essense "fuel". i actually disagree with him, i think there just needs to be more understanding, clearing and emotional training. ( i know... what a weird tangent... back to our post)]

so anyway, it has been pointed out that most of the folks on this forum are "wanderers", so it seems to me each should tune into the "rulebook" as it were from your own original home world playbook and see how you can fit it reasonable peacefully into the 3d accending popualation here with regards to sexuality.

hope that wasn't too weird for folks if so, feel free to just ignore,

peace and love
darlyne.

[Enkidu]

ra told david to stop masturbating in "reincarnation of cayce". as well as to stop picking at his acne and driving like a jerk...... now this was during the early phase of the contact and could very well have been his higher self deciding that these things were no longer right for him.

i dont know about the energy gain/loss during masturbation personally, it is not a vice that i currently contend with so i have never really put much thought into it.

i suppose it depends on how you feel during/after. ra also said not to deny yourself something because you "shouldnt" do it. you should choose not to do something because it is the choice you want to make.

if you feel like you shouldnt do it then perhaps you should stop, instead of trying to justify it. if you feel fine about it and dont really care then by all means, continue.

and continue spiraling ever upwards,
austin

[soup]

sometimes i wonder if a person of high energetic development may inadvertantly imbalance one lesser so in some way which may make it difficult for a person to regain a balanced sustainable state. may that have happened between don and carla somehow?

i can imagine that when a state of divine bliss has been experienced the skill of detaching from it and coming back down to earth may be somehow challenging.

also, may a person likewise imbalance themselves in a way which makes it difficult for them to cope in society - can some legitimate (i.e. tantric) path render a person incompatible with societal norms?


soup

[kensanwa]

it seems so simple, but can be more complex than a lot of people realize.
first of all there is the action of doing it, then there are the thoughts behind it, and finally there is the emotion that you feel during and after -all interwoven and given the single name of "masterbation". all of these things serve the same function as all catalyst does: to show you and allow you to experience you. this is interesting because, i think that for most people, whenever they have a "issue" with masterbation the first thing that they look at is the action of masterbation, but not the mind/thoughts behind it. one thing that i found really interesting after trying to hammer out my own principles regarding this was to look at what images were being held in my mind not only as i was going through with it, but what thoughts led up to it and what thoughts usually followed my solo act. are they always the same? are they centered around a particular person, situation, type of event, etc. then there are the emotions. how do you feel before/during/after? do you feel like you "just gotta do it?" or is it controllable? etc.

if you wanna try something interesting, try doing the deed without holding the image of a sexual situation or an attractive person in your mind. attempt to keep your mind as quiet or still and as present as possible. this may be extremely difficult at first and may or may not be for you, but perhaps it will give you some new perspective.

be well,
kensanwa

[soup]

i was reviewing the idea that the chemical tryptophan seems abundant within chocolate. a friend mentioned that psychics typically enjoy chocolate because for some reason it enhances a feeling of love in some way which complements their experience. so there was some connection to the pineal gland, which converts the tryptophan to seretonin and melatonin that acts in some way like an anti-oxidant. so i considered that well fed pineal activity offers as byproduct good feeling antioxidants pumped to the neighboring brain.

the pineal seems very close to the brain stem and i think the potential of sex, solo or otherwise, is to promote spinal fluid exchange to the brain which chemicaly mixes somehow with the pineal and amygdala hormones to promote a sensation of kundalini fire, a heat which can foster a sort of afterglow stupor. another impression seems that this self induced chemical cocktail can cause a neuron wildfire that allows new brain neuron patterns to form, as if facilitating changing one's mind of the world.

so when there's mention that a person chooses the level of light they ascend to, this may relate to their comfort tolerance somehow in such regards. also, i think that people who share psychic connection can fairly easily share their ecstatic feelings over far distance due to the nature of the crystalized pineal.


soup

[Magical_Mongoose]

put simply, there shouldn't be a mind-spirit-body rift in any way. the ultimate task of humanity is to appreciate the self and the gifts we have to offer. if masterbation helps you nurture or love yourself, then go for it. just don't get carried away ;)
but if refraining entirely from it feels right, then by all the means go for it if the decision synchronizes with your mind and spirit. but if there's internal resistance and guilt associated, don't fall for the trap.

[dazcox]

i think ra was kind of a fascist to tell david not to masturbate, if i heard that part of his history told correctly.

even if david's energy was 'sapped' or if merely his time was 'wasted' with the act, it was still his choice and a source of pleasure.

we know that sex and masturbation were turned into shameful things by religions to have more control over people, essentially to break the spiritual connection with sex.

we know that the christian church at the very least unleashed a bloody culling of midwifes and herbalists etc to reduce the knowledge of nature.

the very idea of the modern witch was just a boogie-man the church invented as justification for terrorizing women into ignorant submission.

what was once common sense became 'witchcraft', and paganism and devil worship were the blanket terms for any knowledge outside of the male dominated church.

we already know this, yet the vestiges of this legacy of anti-nature still linger with us manifesting in latent guilt about all things sexual.

just do it and clean up after yourself!!

[soup]

there was mention somewhere a distinction of density between dw's ra and llr's ra.

at some point in he ra materials was shared the paradox that thou shalt not dictate thou shalts onto others...as a best practice. within generalizations seem exceptions and so maybe choices are best left to those more intimately aware of the circumstances...

so there may be the possibility that all things considered in the context of whatever the situation was at the time, that dw received some good advice. that doesn't seem to imply that it's good for all people and circumstances all the time, as if some sort of ten commandment to follow.


soup

[333mark333]

ejeculation seems to stop the upward surge of kundalini into my upper chakras, it opens the root/sacral and focuses its power there're. :)

mark

[dazcox]

i'm not sold on the idea that masturbation in itself is any detriment to connecting with your higher self or tuning into the frequency of the 'big picture'.

if there was some 'master plan' for david that was constantly hampered by him being horny then why didn't (doesn't) the universe just set up potentials for him to meet a girlfriend to take care of those needs?

why make him healthy and attractive in the first place if his 'destiny' is to 'sacrifice' his human needs for 'the good of mankind'?

perhaps david is/was being closely watched by his higher self/selves and they appear to be disapproving of his normal human behavior and that just seems lame to me.

perhaps it's more akin to not wanting to see your dog lick his balls while you're having sunday dinner with grandma and your minister rather than an physical interruption in the spiritual force.

[transiten]

well dazcox, you might have a caréer as a stand-upcomedian waiting for you; i think we've got some horoscope similarities lol

humour is relly needed in between all the serious stuff discussed when we "diveincosmos"

liliane transiten

[KassandraLoves]

if everyone is different and has different "balancing equations," then i feel that it is necessary to do what works for you.

if you must knock one out every now and then and it doesnt seem to effect your spirituality or your not obsessing in an unhealthy way, then its a-ok!

however, if it does, then maybe balancing is needed or getting to the root reason, if there is one, that keeps causing you to really have to do it all the time. sometimes we feel we need to do things like eat or shop or have sex or whatever to obtain a goal, when in reality that goal can be met in other more spiritiual or more healthy ways.

in any case, i say if it doesnt throw off your "mojo" then go for it, but if you find yourself in an unbalanced situation due to it, then get yourself another hobbby.

maybe thats why ra had to express his concerns about said subject to david, because it wasnt a good "balance" for him. im sure he never forced him or told him if he didnt he'd "go to hell" or "go blind" but im sure ra was just being a good buddy and suggesting something to aid his spiritual equilibrium.

[transiten]

in ladhak, the country high up in the himalayas, the tradition is to become a monk or a nun for a period of time in your life. that's nothing you have to choose forever. also all kinds of matrimonial constellations exist, most common are one woman and several men, often brothers, but also the opposite and monogamy.

to be a monk or a nun can be practical before you enter into marriage, or perhaps someone feels the need to develop his or her spirituality and take a break form the physical sex. i suppose sexual dreams wwere you have an orgasm are not prohibited;)

also what feelings, pictures and thoughts that "turns you on" are of crucial impotance. sexual fantasies often are about tabooissues. if that's the case, one should start examining this and perhaps go in psychoanalyse, but perhaps those who have answered this thread so far are so emotionally/spiritually developed that this never happens:rolleyes: since noone has brought this topic up.

anyway, since my interest in spirituality (and not only astrology) increased my need for onani as we say in sweden has decreased, but of course my age (58) is of help lol. i would not say no though if i "was presented with a wonderful man to meet my needs", but for the moment i feel fine all by my own. i have my dog, this forum, my spiritual contact and a lot of things to arrange, i'm finally getting closer to my father and brothers and sisters due to my stepmothers stroke the other day, a paradoxical situation...i never thought i would come to the point that sex would not be a big issue in my life whether having it or not having it, with a partner or with myself, and being thankful for it:)

now every situation in life is a learning opportunity, and we all have different homework to do so, we're all individuals with different charts and transits and everything is exactly the way it has to be just now for eachone of us.

liliane transiten

[soup]

possibly the act of abstinance builds a charge potential within a person which seems better able to attract another who can help discharge it somehow...

somewhere in my studies of sexuality came an idea that the human reproductive cycle seems better phased by the moon...and that so many technological inventions have wedged apart the sexes from synchronizing to some lunar cycle.

i think much of the sexually underwhelmed states people fall into seem simply as consequence to this broken cycle and a failure to recognize that to sustain a satisfying sexual partnership there needs to be mutual cooperation to the cycle. as soon as one cheats, the partnership falls out of synch.

soup