End of 3rd Density non-Physical

[wander-man]

came across some stuff channeled by the same chick who did ra. q'uo suggests there will not be a great transformation quantum leap in the physical world, and we will live out our incarnations.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0101.aspx

"group question: the question today, q’uo, has to do with information that you gave some time ago concerning the end of third density and the beginning of fourth density. we’re wondering if there is any reason for us to be afraid of anything that’s going to occur then. everything that we know is going to come to an end, as we know it, in third density. an entirely new fourth-density vibration is coming in, entirely new ways of looking at things, of doing and being. is there any reason for fear?"

"...we can say unequivocally that there is no reason to have fear [while] phasing out the stunning changes that are taking place on your planet at this time.

one reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. as the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet earth. consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes...

the only reason for fear that we would see in the picture that we look at at this time is that tendency among your people to feel that it is possible to create a better situation than the one that is currently had by destroying people, buildings and the environments with your weapons of mass destruction...

we are pleased, indeed, that groups such as yours all over the planet have enabled the third-density structure they do now enjoy as they have. it is extremely likely at this point that your population shall be able to enjoy uninterrupted and comfortable incarnations at the end of which lies the opportunity to choose the next classroom which you feel that you would best enjoy working in."

i was wondering if anyone else knew of this, and to get peoples thoughts as this seems to contradict many people's ideas on what will happen in 2012.

[larissa]

thanks for posting this, i had read it myself, and wondered why those on this forum seemed to think there was going to be a physical shift. in my travels through all sorts of groups and messages, there often was cataclysmic information that had everybody riled up, but nothing ever came of these predictions.

we seem to have this need for drama, and movies and tv and such keep us hyped up to the max. we have a need for external stimuli to feel that things are happening. that it's all happening on the inside is "boring".

i have found myself, after much struggle to avert myself from the outside to the inside, that it's much more exciting on the inside. not as a withdrawal from the world, but a centering on the reality inside which has a direct and positive effect on subsequent events in the world of action.

so 2012 will come and go, with people wondering what happened. lots, but only if you have the eyes to see. i already see so much happening i can hardly keep up with it. but life goes on as before.

[Muse]

the way i see the shifting is that we will move from "blame, shame, guilt, etc." to where we take self responsibility with unconditional love of self first. can't give what we don't own. blame is pointing out ... you did it to me. guilt and shame, is pointing in ... i did it to me. this to me is operating in 3rd density reality. much of the "new age" stuff is still coming from 3rd density in my opinion, as is most religion.

forth density from what i have read in the material is a place where we come from unconditional love. and by that i don't mean putting up with people, but seeing that we all have parts of what bothers us in us. for example:

"people should be more loving", turns out to be "i should be more loving." people should not be more loving unless they are. that is far more truthful. and in that we come from unconditional love. embracing reality as it is, is a 4th density dance. it is not the easiest dance to learn, but when we learn to dance that way, living life in 4th density naturally occurs.

you are right. it has nothing to do with the outer world. it is about an inner shift of consciousness. the outer simply follows or shows up for us to see our projections. the war within is all that ever creates war in the world, and as a therapist i can tell you that we all wage war with all kinds of things going on within us. when we find peace (4th density), it makes it easier for more and more of us to find that same peace. david goes into this some in the science of peace series, which i love. the meditation in part 3 i do nearly every day.

those around us may not be dancing to the tune of unconditional love, but it doesn't bother us ... because we don't see things through 3rd density eyes anymore. this brings about a profound peace. we are then resonating in a truth that literally sets us free.

[MarkM]

david wilcock has provided much scientific evidence that suggests a sudden transition of the third-density space/time aspect of earth into fourth density space/time. evidence within the law of one as well as gleaned from dw's research suggests that the entire, non-ascending human population may suddenly flip over into third-density time/space without missing a beat, and without suspecting, at least at first, that anything has changed.

this may explain the 100 - 700 year transition period given by ra. here, gradualism is relegated to 3d time/space, an existence in what could be called the 'afterlife', or time/space, for the bulk of humanity, re-loading the earth as an astral duplicate of 3d space/time.

as in any 'afterlife' existence featuring a mocked up environment for the departed until they finally realize they need to move on from attachment to earth, i guess that it may take up to 700 years of subjective time until these souls have finally all or mostly moved on.

in the case of transition from 3rd to 4th space/time earth, the transition is, i believe, quite sudden - and dw can explain this far better than i, or anyone else, for that matter.

the science is hard.

mark

[wander-man]

david wilcock has provided much scientific evidence that suggests a sudden transition of the third-density space/time aspect of earth into fourth density space/time. evidence within the law of one as well as gleaned from dw's research suggests that the entire, non-ascending human population may suddenly flip over into third-density time/space without missing a beat, and without suspecting, at least at first, that anything has changed.

this may explain the 100 - 700 year transition period given by ra. here, gradualism is relegated to 3d time/space, an existence in what could be called the 'afterlife', or time/space, for the bulk of humanity, re-loading the earth as an astral duplicate of 3d space/time.

as in any 'afterlife' existence featuring a mocked up environment for the departed until they finally realize they need to move on from attachment to earth, i guess that it may take up to 700 years of subjective time until these souls have finally all or mostly moved on.

in the case of transition from 3rd to 4th space/time earth, the transition is, i believe, quite sudden - and dw can explain this far better than i, or anyone else, for that matter.

the science is hard.

mark

i meant to bold this statement too:

"therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet earth."

seems pretty straightforward to me. q'uo (and supposedly ra is swimming around in it's spiritual belly, if you will) is telling the small group of super wanderers that their life will not be changed. so while the transition from 3rd to 4th may be sudden, perhaps its effects will not. someone please correct me if i'm wrong:confused:

[FooSnik]

i would love to know the answer to the question of sudden event vs. gradual progression.

one thing does seem to be for sure. things definitely seem to be accelerating at a dizzying rate. not just at a steady increase but a multiplying curve.

so how much longer can things keep up like this? it feels to me like a drum roll that is building and building until there will be a huge crazy explosive event. or at least things start crumbling apart because it can't handle the intensity.

or it could be like a big, anti-climatic joke in which the drum roll reaches a fever pitch and we are all waiting to see the fireworks and then there is only silence. then we hear this loud booming laughter and god says, "ha ha! i got you guys good!"

:p

[MarkM]

q'uo: one reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. as the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet earth. consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes...

i feel that the q'uo are saying that earth changes, i believe, are largely non-physical, within the inner planes of space/time - not in time/space. this is thanks to the many and varied groups of lightworkers who, in part, work to smooth out the potential for massive physical disaster.

according to the ra, only a small percentage of 3d humans is likely to ascend to 4d space/time. here, i believe, consensus reality refers largely to those humans still learning 3d lessons and unable to follow earth into 4d space/time.


we are pleased, indeed, that groups such as yours all over the planet have enabled the third-density structure they do now enjoy as they have. it is extremely likely at this point that your population shall be able to enjoy uninterrupted and comfortable incarnations at the end of which lies the opportunity to choose the next classroom which you feel that you would best enjoy working in."

again, it seems that q'uo is referring to humanity in general, aided by small groups of lightworkers who have eased the travail of earth.

it occurs to me that the members of the confederation are bound to protect our free-will becoming and inner seeking via the law of confusion, and as such will not say anything which takes the confusion out of the discussion. there will always be room for differing interpretation of their teachings - have you ever wondered why they don't remove all obfuscation, and just give us a cut and dried, point by point itinerary of what's to come?

they never do, and that's to protect our right to find what resonates with us each, to foster contemplation and discussion, and avail ourselves of our inner direction.

for me, gradualism points to human 3d civilization carrying on for a time after the 2012-era 'omega point', in 3d time/space, thus the earth-realm at large is yet not fully 4d.

the 4d earth is presently still in time/space, almost ready to flip over into space/time in a sudden event. consensus human reality at the same time flips over into 3d time/space - cities, countries, your aunt joan and your dog, spot - the totality of the human-experienced world.

my interpretation may differ from yours, and that's the way it's supposed to be, as it both your and my right to ponder and create our own reality - and that's the beautiful thing i'd like to point out here.;)

mark

[wander-man]

just came across this:


b: is there another process besides death to make the transition?

we are those of q’uo, and believe we understanding your query, my brother. there is not in the duties of the guardian any process other than that which occurs at the death, as you know this walk through the gateway to larger life. we are aware that there has been discussion among your peoples of that which this instrument calls the rapture and indeed this instrument is aware of the teachings of the one known as jesus who said that when the time came there would two people in the field—one would be taken and one would be left. it is our understanding of this teaching—and again we offer it humbly—that this was as were almost all of the things that the one known as jesus taught, like a parable in nature.

the literal meaning of the stories that the one known as jesus told was not intended but rather the stories were those stories in which the parable pointed out metaphysical truths rather than physical ones. therefore, it is indeed so, in terms of the functionality of the graduation process, that in the moment of choice on the steps of light, an entity either chooses third density or fourth density and therefore moves into life in third or life in fourth density. [b]we do not believe it was intended that there would be this adventurous drama suggested of a sudden and fell rapture in which life as you know it stopped suddenly and [completely] and entities were either tossed into the pits of hell or lifted up to heaven.

we believe that the reality is less dramatic but much more understandable. we believe that the reality is that you, each of you, will choose the manner of your being. you will choose it not because you judge yourself but because you realize that there is a sweet spot in the light for you. walking those steps of light, you are not looking to push past your abilities, you are looking to find that place where you belong, and when you have found just the right place, it does not matter if it is third density or fourth density, it is the place that you have earned, it is the gift of your long and adventurous life and all that has brought you to that point at which you were vibrating in a certain way when you passed into larger life. that vibration is your being. you want your being to be comfortable. you want that being that you are to be placed where it belongs. this as we understand it is the process of graduation or ascension.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0401.aspx

i'm not trying to be ******* here, i'm just a little confused as i have read and watched some of dw's work and now i'm coming across this q'uo stuff and i'm like, "******?"

how does the above quote tie in to the anti-gradualism theory?

[MarkM]

personally, i'd leave this for all to ponder, individually. (other opinions welcome, though ;) )

-markman

[johnasmodeus]

please, as a favor to me, do not refer to carla rueckert as "a chick."

onegai shimasu
asmo

[wander-man]

here's another reading regarding ascension:
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0416.aspx

some snippets:


those who have been incarnating lately, for the most part, are those entities who have volunteered proudly and sacrificially to enter this waning third-density environment as pilgrims of fourth density. they are like unto those led by moses in the desert. they shall not see the promised land, but they shall create the garden of eden upon your planet once again to the best of their ability.


this is how we see your present moment, not as one in which there will be a sudden change but one in which the changes are continuous and metaphysical in nature rather than physical.

there's a lot of other interesting stuff too in that link, for example:


the work of this group and many, many others like it, as well as many individuals working alone in terms of physicality, have created a grace period. since 1998 in your counting, you have been living on grace alone. this grace continues. it shall not continue beyond a certain point. for you see, at a certain point it is as though there were energies mixed in a glass of water.

we apologize for the oversimplification of this figure, but we are using a non-scientific instrument.

the energies are all mixed in a glass of water and to a certain extent they continue to be melded within each other, but at a certain point, the heavier elements sink to the bottom and the lighter elements rise to the top and there is a separation between the two levels. that point is coming for third density on planet earth. this is not a tragedy. this is not the rapture. this has nothing to do with ascension. it is the natural, evolutionary process by which spiritual evolution of people and of planets occurs.

the grace period part blew my mind, and now it lies splattered on a wall of confusion:eek:

[wander-man]

please, as a favor to me, do not refer to carla rueckert as "a chick."

onegai shimasu
asmo

sorry if i came off as derogatory, i didn't mean chick in a bad way.
i meant it in the following way:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chick
1. chick


the nicest way to refer to any female. used respectfully like this in australia. a completely non-derrogatory comment, that in general (most chick's i've talked to) is non-offensive to women and better than most alternative's.
"what are the chick's doing tonight?"
"that channeling chick is hella cool!"


is it ok if i refer to her as (a) super channeler? or, wanderwoman?

[ChrisC]

hey guys,

my personal feeling about 2012 and 3d->4d is that this is something that is occuring as a increase in the creator light energy. this gives us the chance to live either more harmonious (if we are able to be transducers and intergrate the new energy) or live even more disharmonious (the intensity of the new energy cannot be integrated and in then becomes as a sauna...it only intensifies more as time goes). if we reach a tipping point (not meaning 50% of total pop.) then the shift will affect the planets consciousness for the better.

the old age (age of pisces) was known for superstition, greed, ego, manipulation... "i know therefore i experience."
the new age (age of aquarious) motto: i experience therefore i know; no power or elite knows better than me, mankind in this new era won´t be easily manipulated by e.g., "the supremacy of the white race" or the "women should stay home"...that is the old age.

we are here to make way for the new age...it will maybe not be a radical shift in our physical 3d world, but the shift of consciousness will be enormous...for those able to integrate the new energy. "as within as without" ...this will lead to heaven on earth, maybe not in our lifetime but surely in our grandchildrens...feel the new energy, be the new energy

we assigned the mission "save mother earth" before we incarnated, we are the dawners of the new age, the new age starts with us.

this is my reality, what is yours?

peace

[Goyo]

hey everyone,

i came across this post from dw a few weeks back regarding the channelings of q'uo through carla and the argument between gradualism vs. a sudden shift.

here's the link... http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32625&postcount=41

"just as a note here, carla has always been heavily biased, in the conscious mind, against anything noteworthy happening around 2012. this was the product of a lively debate going all the way back to our first shared appearance together in louisville in 2002.

i have only the greatest respect for carla, lived with her or near her for three years and supported her financially for two out of those three, as well as having a major impact on building four rooms in her basement and a shed on her land.

on this particular issue i believe strong conscious biases, and a lack of familiarity with the intricate interweavings of various passages in the law of one series, has caused the discrepancy. channeling is always a blending between conscious and superconscious minds, and even her unconscious work in the law of one series had a few minor inconsistencies -- such as the dating of the great pyramid's construction and the home density of jesus.

what i have done previously is to make a comprehensive, airtight and irrefutable case that 2012 is a "quantum leap" representing a "shift in the basic nature of the photon" making up all physical matter, right from passages in the law of one series.

in order to support the 'gradualist' model you have to ignore 95% of the relevant quotes to focus exclusively on one that appears to suggest a 100-700 year transition period. as i've said before, dr. mandelker and i figured out this refers to a transition from time-space rather than space-time. it is not specified one way or the other in the law of one, and by making it time-space it immediately balances with all other quotes.

i am now presenting this material in public lectures and you can find it in the site archives as well. read "law of one and 2012: the facts!" at the following url:

http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=332&itemid=30

looking at the actual quotes collapses the argument, at which time this becomes simply an embarrassing difference of opinion.

- david"

[Wellerite]

the entity in question whether it be ra or quo can only use the ideas and concepts that carla avails them of. those channelers that have prophesied destruction and chaos are those that that have left their metaphysical door wide open expecting a greeting from a wise master when in fact the chances are that you will receive any old joe. but whether that messenger be of a high calibre or not the message will always be distorted through the channelers own disposition. also lets not forget how our thoughts will affect carla. when we are reading these channellings our thoughts can connect to carla (though not on purpose) by a tenuous thread. having arrived within her neighbourhood, it impinges on the aura, beating out the rhythm with which it is endowed. thusly we will all add our own colouring to these channellings through thought transference.

[Muse]

what's wrong with right here, right now, unless you think about it? that usually takes me right to 4th density without even thinking about it. :cool:

[johnasmodeus]

is it ok if i refer to her as (a) super channeler? or, wanderwoman?

:d

actually, my request was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, so you really can do whatever you like. it's just that i've seen photos of carla and heard her speak and she gives off this very "intelligent, cool grandma" vibe that i dig. for me, with my bias towards american english, this is the very antithesis of the term "chick."

although, and, carla if you're reading this, i mean this with the greatest respect, if you look up old photos or video of carla, you will see that she was quite the hottie back in the day. nothing "grandmotherly" about her then at all. :eek:

here. look for the girl in the blond wig in the first ten minutes of "the hidan of maukbeiangjow:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71pp2jdbbm

[MarkM]

just came across this:


quote:
b: is there another process besides death to make the transition?

we are those of q’uo, and believe we understanding your query, my brother. there is not in the duties of the guardian any process other than that which occurs at the death, as you know this walk through the gateway to larger life. we are aware that there has been discussion among your peoples of that which this instrument calls the rapture and indeed this instrument is aware of the teachings of the one known as jesus who said that when the time came there would [be] two people in the field—one would be taken and one would be left. it is our understanding of this teaching—and again we offer it humbly—that this was as were almost all of the things that the one known as jesus taught, like a parable in nature.

the literal meaning of the stories that the one known as jesus told was not intended but rather the stories were those stories in which the parable pointed out metaphysical truths rather than physical ones. therefore, it is indeed so, in terms of the functionality of the graduation process, that in the moment of choice on the steps of light, an entity either chooses third density or fourth density and therefore moves into life in third or life in fourth density. we do not believe it was intended that there would be this adventurous drama suggested of a sudden and fell rapture in which life as you know it stopped suddenly and [completely] and entities were either tossed into the pits of hell or lifted up to heaven.

we believe that the reality is less dramatic but much more understandable. we believe that the reality is that you, each of you, will choose the manner of your being. you will choose it not because you judge yourself but because you realize that there is a sweet spot in the light for you. walking those steps of light, you are not looking to push past your abilities, you are looking to find that place where you belong, and when you have found just the right place, it does not matter if it is third density or fourth density, it is the place that you have earned, it is the gift of your long and adventurous life and all that has brought you to that point at which you were vibrating in a certain way when you passed into larger life. that vibration is your being. you want your being to be comfortable. you want that being that you are to be placed where it belongs. this as we understand it is the process of graduation or ascension.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcript...2006_0401.aspx

i'm not trying to be ******* here, i'm just a little confused as i have read and watched some of dw's work and now i'm coming across this q'uo stuff and i'm like, "******?"

how does the above quote tie in to the anti-gradualism theory?

wow..a beautiful extract from the q'uo channelings!:)

i like to read this in the context of the question asked, "is there another process besides death to make the transition?"

it seemed to me while checking out the law of one that ra is telling us that there comes a point where the light becomes too glaring, as ra puts it, and we find our max ability to handle the light comfortably.

i wonder if, circa 2012, our @ 75,000 - 78,000 year sojourn in 3d will curve up to a completion point, in terms of a parabolic or perhaps more geometrically involved increase of change per given time period. there is questionably a theoretical point at which the parabolic curve on a graph goes vertical... or is there?

imagine.. a parabola forming for thousands of years, creeping along the horizontal, and then finally, slowly quickening; arcing towards the vertical, and you would understand that there would be a time in which, if you tagged the rate of change to passage of time, would result in a state eventually wherein rates of change that would previously take thousands of years to transpire, now, near the vertical of the parabola, have exponentially approached infinite change per zero time - and this process as it ramps up circa 2012 represents the event of the turning inside out of 3d space/time.

in a weird way, the theoretical impossibility of reaching the vertical is cancelled out by the concept of a mirror- imaged, reversed time/space duplication of space/time, forming a balanced picture. but that's another story.;)

i wonder if q'uo is describing a 'time' at which humanity is ultimately squeezed out of 3d space/time, perhaps the experience of many in the last moments of tenure here is of an exponentially increasing rate of change, leading to thoughts becoming things as the need for change to keep up with the parabola entails a necessary release from the agent of 3d cause/time/effect, as our minds perceive it.

mark

[E.J.]

wanderman et al.,
i have been pondering this thread since it was started a few weeks ago. after re-reading david's "2012 quantum leap proof", and re-reading several of q'uo's channelings, i feel that i have come across a solution to all of this confusion, and will give quotes to support.

bottom line solution: david and scott mandelker are completely accurate with their description of the transition between third and fourth density as a quantum increase in vibration. however, david's proof treatise only uses the ra material to determine the date of this quantum change. as we know from reading and re-reading these quotes from ra, there is some ambiguity. there is not one contradiction, but there is vagueness. for example, ra's answer:

questioner: am i to understand that the harvest will occur in the year 2,011, or will it be spread?

ra: i am ra. this is an approximation. we have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. this is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest.


it is an approximation and is a probable and possible nexus for harvest. no where else does ra specifically say that 2011-2013 is exactly right. i quote again:


ra: i am ra. this inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. it shall continue unabated for a period of approximately three oh — thirty — of your years.

questioner: after this period of thirty years i am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. this is so.


if you are getting excited, before you jump on me, pretend you are answering don's questions for a moment. "it shall continue unabated for a period of approximately thirty of your years" is your answer.

coupled with your knowledge that you are "approximating" and that you have "difficulty with our time/space", as well as the fact that you know you are looking at possibility/probability vortices, you give an answer to don that directly responds to his question based on the fact that he knows your difficulties.

if ra were absolutely certain about thirty years, how could they give us the information without infringing upon our free will? it is an approximation, and what's more, i suspect it is not a certainty.

i quote again:


ra: i am ra. the first harbingers of this were approximately forty-five of your years ago, the energies vibrating more intensely through the forty year period preceding the final movement of vibratory matter, shall we say, through the quantum leap, as you would call it.

i completely agree that david has 1936 right on the money, there is no doubt that 1981-45 = 1936. however, "the energies vibrating more intensely through the forty year period preceding the final movement of vibratory matter, shall we say, through the quantum leap, as you would call it" does not automatically imply that:
a) 1981 was in that forty year period, or;
b) that the forty year period ends in 2012

i appreciate david's evidence regarding 1972, and am not ignoring that. however, i would like to be fair to ra's statement. with the utmost respect to direct meaning, ra's statement can be paraphrased as, "beginning forty years before the quantum leap, the energies will vibrate ever more intensely." period. we may or may not be in that time period now, and also, this forty year period may lengthen. ra does not specifically say that the forty year period is locked in stone.

the reason i focus on these quotes is to help propose that david's wonderful work substantially proves that there will be a quantum leap point. however, this does not necessarily mean that there will be no changes over time both before and after that point, and also that the point will definitely, without a doubt, be 2012. simply based on law of one quotes, there is a case that 2011-2013 can be the shift time. several times in the loo series, ra mentions the "sub-levels" of each density. when we graduate into fourth density, we will be at the first sub-level. just like there is a big difference between the caveman and the modern day human, so can there be a big difference between first and seventh sub-level fourth density. we will be growing during this transition as always. this growth during transition is key to then linking in q'uo.

i quote from 1-01-2006:


in terms of what is happening to the planet, the third-density planet earth on which you live is gradually exhausting its capacity to offer an environment in which third-density entities can incarnate. the energies have been strengthened, especially in the last ten years or so, as we said, by many groups such as yours who gather for reasons larger than themselves, and you have in common a great love for the creator and a great desire to serve the creator.

this whole-hearted stretching and reaching for the light and this growing desire to learn the truth among so many of your people have greatly aided the situation as regards the strength of the field of third density at this time. it is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. it is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. however, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over.

those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as dewey. it is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. this is perfectly in order.


first paragraph: the energies on earth have strengthened, especially within the last 10 years or so, because of the work that groups gathering for seeking have done.

second paragraph: this growing desire and searching for the truth among your peoples, has greatly aided the "strength of the third density energy field at this time." and further, "it is very likely" (using probability/possibility vortices just like ra) "that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years."

whoa! now wait a moment! this does not contradict ra. ra's word is saved in this case by the fact that they were looking at vortices in 1981, just like q'uo now. and you're thinking, "if we could just talk to ra," right?? but, as always in these channelings from q'uo, they are fully consistent with the ra material (i also beg you to remember that q'uo is a member of the confederation, and yes with a slightly different perspective than ra, as they are slightly different). q'uo's whole explanation that the third density energies can lengthen the time to the transition fully fits in with the fact that:
a) there will be a quantum leap point (as ra stated)
b) the transitionary time period lies between 100-700 years (as ra stated), specifically 100-150 years, because our spiritual energy growth has aided, and will continue to aid, the earth in this transition process

in the third paragraph, q'uo gives us another piece of puzzle. they say that those people who are in time/space now, in the process of healing, will not have another chance to incarnate in third density--fitting in perfectly with ra's statement that "all will be harvested, whether incarnated or not," and lending creedence to the fact that this transition process is happening right now, and is coming to an end.

and finally, remember that ra never says whether or not the quantum leap transition may be delayed by years (a very short time in this process), or whether it must happen in thirty years. although this may seem like a minute point, it is this kind of a small omission that can preserve our free will.

i have the utmost respect for david's work and continue to be a strong supporter. please know that i simply feel that i could not pass up this opportunity to share these insights i have had regarding this matter, that has troubled me, as it has troubled so many.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[MarkM]

a great work of reasoning, good job!

just a couple of quick points that occured to me on first reading:



those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as dewey. it is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. this is perfectly in order.

so, if humanity's sojourn in the 3d earth plane is to last up to 150 more years, might this suggest that it would not be in the sense of the above bolded part - but that this would take place in the time/space aspect of 3d earth?

another thought occurs - all that which is given to us by both ra and q'uo is done so with a mind to preserving our free will, but that does not preclude a solution to our mystery of the timing of the 'quantum' point coming from humans themselves. indeed, what would be the purpose of these signposts coming down from the confederation, if not to goad us into finding our own solutions via our own means - namely, science, meditation, and a tireless, single-pointed quest for truth, light and love?

the ambiguity present in this material invites us to seek our own answers; for humanity to discover for itself does not breach the law of free will. i believe the key here, not spelled out by ra or q'uo (in keeping with the law of free will) is the factoring in of space/time vs. time/space.


"it is very likely" (using probability/possibility vortices just like ra) "that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years."

keep in mind that q'uo is not specifying 3d space/time. the body you inhabit after passing from space/time into time/space is still a third density body.

a subtle point, easily to be missed by many.

just a couple of quick thoughts, it's bedtime for me!

p.s. what's really important to dwell on is the possibilities inherent within this moment - to dwell on anything else to the exclusion of this is folly, i suggest!;)

mark

[wander-man]

as cool as it would be to explode like popcorn into white fluffy ecstasy, a slow roasted cob over the open flame is still pretty tasty.

[E.J.]

markm

thanks for your response. i just came across another q'uo session, 4-16-00 (a real gem in my opinion), in which q'uo specifically speaks about what we will experience after death of our physical vehicles. they even describe carla's short death experience. these below quotes give weight to your proposition that a quantum leap in 2012 could still keep us generally in our third-density mindset for another 100 years. the only thing i question with that theory is that q'uo specifically uses the term "incarnation" twice in the quote from my last post. the first time to say that "those here now will live out their incarnations" and the second time to say that "those not incarnated now will not have another opportunity at this density" (both paraphrased).

regardless, these below quotes shed more light on our discussion.


in this particular lifetime for each of you there is the potential of graduation at the end of this physical death experience. now, let us say that the physical death is one thing to the body and another to the consciousness that the body is carrying about at this time. for each of you is not one being, but two. you are a second-density animal, a hairless or nearly hairless great ape, with certain instinctual patterns of behavior and a choice-making brain that is extremely good at choosing what to eat and how to survive and how to protect the family. and you are also this eternal being whose present life is merely a parenthesis in eternity. when the physical body is exhausted or is traumatized and can no longer sustain the breath of life the spirit itself does not miss a beat. there is no alteration in consciousness. it is as though you were continuing to observe but the nature of your observation changes. for, instead of observing the heart beating, the mind thinking about dinner, the feelings of the physical body as they move into your consciousness, suddenly you are experiencing what seems to be a physical body, what seems to be physical feelings, what seem to be physical incoming data. but the body itself has altered.



and on carla's death experience:


this instrument has had the experience of moving through the gate of death and so we are able to say through this instrument that this entity’s first-hand experience was a valid one. and this entity’s experience was simply that, the kidneys having failed in this instrument’s body, it experienced a great deal of pain and then when death occurred, there was the cessation of the pain. there had been disfigurement of the body because of the lack of the kidneys working. suddenly the body was fair and perfect. the clues mounted quickly, however, that the entire situation had changed. for when this entity spoke to a rose upon a fence an entire section of rose bush wound itself around this entity’s arm, without thorns but with endless love. this entity could hear music and see it in the air. and the colors that this entity saw were more substantial and had a life of their own. they pulsed and glowed with a three-dimensional seeming energy that is lacking in the colors upon your planet

the experience expanded through the death process rather than being cut off and then changing or stopping altogether. this is the actual experience at the time of death. indeed, it is so persuasive that many there are who die suddenly who take quite some time to realize that they have indeed passed through the gates of physical death and no longer have a body or an incarnation upon the planetary sphere.



peace and love in the light,
e.j.

[MarkM]

thank you, e.j.

carla's death experience has caused me to consider the realm of time/space, our dwelling place after this thin space/time shell-body has disintegrated, as well as during the dream state.

consider the dream state - thoughts become things, and can be experienced as solid objects within the parameters of the dream - and in the dream, one can experience events that can't happen here, in our agreed upon reality. here, physical laws provide a template and a possibility of a consensus reality, whereas in the dream state... in your personal dream, you are not so bound; anything can happen.

but what if two or more wanted to experience the same dream, together? or, consider shared existence in the 'afterlife' state in time/space - if the experience were to be shared, would there not have to be some agreed upon parameters or 'laws' which govern the shared experience, in order for shared experience to be con-sensual?

perhaps in time/space as well as here, any forum of shared experiencing would necessarily need universal, or 'physical' laws, agreed to by all participants, otherwise the experience of each would branch off into a unitary 'dream' experience, not experienced by anyone else.

one may imagine an inner-plane realm of time/space, into which the bulk of un-ascended humanity is 'uploaded' at any juncture of harvest, whenever that may be, wherein the earth is re-created naturally, as a shared common forum, as we are not experienced with any other reality set.

here, in order for experience to be shared, we may re-create an apparent space/time experienced, concrete and solid duplicate experience of our present earth civilization, complete with aching bones, tooth decay, taxes, the solar system, galaxy, crime and punishment - the works.

a whole earth afterlife, necessitating agreement on the parameters of experience.

it's conceivable that we effectively continue with our present incarnation without missing a beat, growing old, having kids and grand kids, dying in house fires and of cancer... all in time/space, all necessitating a space/time experience of cause and effect, in order to share a consensus reality.

our confederate benefactors may hardly communicate this to us, other than in tantalizing clues offered to inspire us to do our own groundwork in this area, so as not to infringe...........

i see no reason to feel that what is essentially, in time/space, free latitude in time while bound to a position in space, (dewey larson and david wilcock stuff) might not yet be experiencible subjectively by a 'passed' humanity as the equal/opposite reciprocal - namely, totally solid, nuts and bolts, cause and effect earth experience. might we, for the benefit of a shared, consensus reality, experience time as space, and space as time? it seems as though experientially, if not in absolute reality, this is possible, almost as 1/4 x 4/1 = 1.

here, subjectively, an incarnation may not necessarily be seen to end at 'death'.

mark

[Bill]

wow, mark... that was pretty deep. wouldn't it be truly amazing if we remembered that the so called laws of classic physics were because we all agreed how this dimension would operate......

hmmmmm....

[eyez4096]

i wonder if, circa 2012, our @ 75,000 - 78,000 year sojourn in 3d will curve up to a completion point, in terms of a parabolic or perhaps more geometrically involved increase of change per given time period. there is questionably a theoretical point at which the parabolic curve on a graph goes vertical... or is there?

imagine.. a parabola forming for thousands of years, creeping along the horizontal, and then finally, slowly quickening; arcing towards the vertical, and you would understand that there would be a time in which, if you tagged the rate of change to passage of time, would result in a state eventually wherein rates of change that would previously take thousands of years to transpire, now, near the vertical of the parabola, have exponentially approached infinite change per zero time - and this process as it ramps up circa 2012 represents the event of the turning inside out of 3d space/time.

in a weird way, the theoretical impossibility of reaching the vertical is cancelled out by the concept of a mirror- imaged, reversed time/space duplication of space/time, forming a balanced picture. but that's another story.;)

mark

try to imagine an asymptotic function like tangent or arcsin, etc. these will behave in the way you suggest. a parabola, however, simply becomes twice as vertical (in terms of slope/gradient) for every unit it travels away from its trough. this still takes a theoretically infinite amount of "time" for it to reach a similarly (doubly) infinite gradient.

personally i like to think of the tangent function for this argument; in a fixed amount of "time" the dependent variable travels full-circle from a negatively infinite value to a positively infinite one. but for "most" of its period it remains at an easily measurable and gradually changing locus. it's only very near the so-called asymptote (or point of discontinuity) that the dependent variable will have |large| values -- and similarly large gradients (rates of change).

(a friendly contribution form your friendly neighborhood math guy) :d

-charles

[wander-man]

so to clear things up:

"dw: q'uo is wrong because carla is making stuff up"

is this the gist of it? because q'uo is clearly and repeatedly saying there will be no rapture type event.

[MarkM]

it's funny how some will draw this conclusion from reading q'uo, and others, the alternate conclusion - i have gathered that the q'uo channelings might very well be filtered through carla's consciousness to a great extent, as compared with the ra channelings, which seem to have sidestepped carla's conscious ego.

when considering the q'uo material, we are looking perhaps at a far more common and easily performed example of channeling than that of ra. this is not to downplay the remarkability of the q'uo channeling, but the ra channeling is an example of an extremely rare narrow band contact, the likes of which is almost never seen in the world.

carla is likewise an extremely rare individual, one who has proven fearless and steadfast to the light; and who is also aware of the necessity that her source be adequately challenged, and trustworthy.

i see q'uo as a source which is extremely careful so as to work within the parameters of the entity carla and her world-view, so as to keep from infringing on her free will. if carla is happily in mystery regarding the shift, then i would hardly expect to hear q'uo saying something to abridge her will.

in regard to issues of the shift, i expect that this truism holds in the face of all who study the q'uo material. i would expect q'uo to neither confirm or deny, in absolute terms, such things as a timeline, the issue of a sudden event vs. a several hundred year gradual transition, or specific details pertaining to our individual experience.

in attempting to maintain an open mind in the debate, and having studied the issue within both the ra and the q'uo material, it seems to me that the confederation is primarily concerned with our free will, yet does offer clues and signposts which are designed to stir this very debate - neither confirming nor denying, but meant to be added to with our own human know-how and research and science capabilities.

if one takes a hard look at david wilcock's work, one sees the inter-connectedness of science, research and intuition that he has presented in order to make the case for a sudden event.

-from the discovery of punctuated equilibrium of evolution in the fossil record, at which large percentages of the earth's flora and fauna disappear suddenly at even intervals in the earth's history, only to be replaced with a huge number of new species almost immediately, many without any identifiable genetic pre-cursors,

-to the science of cymatics which indicates that energetic/geometric formations (or standing wave patterns) resist changing into higher, more complex forms as ambient energy increases in frequency - until certain threshold energy densities are achieved, at which times the formation instantly bursts into a different, more geometrically complex formation,

-to experiments indicating dna acts as an torsion-field energy antenna, and is able to instantly alter the basic genetic structure of its host lifeform, as the information received by the dna alters,

these things and much more, (all given in detail on this website) suggest to me that we are in for a sudden event.

here, the great thinkers and visionaries of today have presented the missing pieces of the puzzle; we have determined for ourselves, using the tools availlable to us in 3d, what q'uo and ra have not been able to come right out and say, as per the law of confusion. we have to do the work, whether this work be inner or outer work; the confederation can only really fire our imaginations.

i offer that the conversation in this thread has not determined that q'uo present themselves as leaning any one way in this debate; in fact, they leave room for potential interpretation in either direction. if they did otherwise, i would strongly suspect negative influence.

mark

[PriestOfLight]

anything that happens is going to happen based on principle described in the ra and q'ou. so the answer should be a simple one with little squiggle room but encompass all.

facts we know as per q'ou and ra

we have free will
we are co-creators

based on this, instead of defering that our destiny is held by some higher being (which by the law of one does not exist, we are one and equal, no one better then any other) or some pre-detined event wouldn't it stand to reason that:

the future is our choice and our choice alone along with any changes that happen along this path.

if we choose a longer more peaceful transition as a collective, we will create it.

if we choose instant annilation, we as a collective will create it.

this would stand to reason why there is so many different opinions on the subject. there is only now. there is no future, only possible futures.

the future, in my opinion, is being decided at every moment of every day by the collective thoughts and actions of all souls. and these thoughts and actions will inherently decide the possible future that occurs.

the past only states the possibility of the past repeating itself or a possible future that has occured once before.

i don't believe ra or q'ou can predict our future even themselves.

when i think of the future, with all my heart i send as many positive messages to the universe for what i wish to co-create right now and for future now moments with the hopes that many others want and pray for the same things as collective, and that we will co-create this future together as one.


in the light and infinite love of all

priest of light

[yossarian]

if the moment of quantum shift arrives due to a peak of the energy in the galactic "clock" to use ra's analogy, then how can the time of the quantum shift possibly be changed by human consciousness?




http://wiki.lawofone.info/index.php/ra_session_9

questioner: the way that i understand the process of evolution is that our planetary population has a certain amount of time to progress. this is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. at the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. what caused this situation to come about with the preciseness of the years in each cycle?

ra: i am ra. visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your council of saturn. continue seeing the rhythm of this process. the living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. the timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.

this intelligent energy offers a type of clock. the cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.

this is what has always bugged me about q'uo vs. ra. q'uo says that the shift has been "pushed back" in a way due to the harmonious vibrations, but what the hell? i thought the shift itself is this extremely impersonal thing to do with the sun's orbit?

so there is clearly a big dichotomy between q'uo and the loo, not only on this but on many other issues.

of course it also brings up the issue of why ra is unable to pinpoint the time of shift. if planetary consciousness has nothing to do with the exact time of the shift, why does ra dither and talk about approximations and vortexes rather than just giving the date? how hard can it be for a 6th density entity to work out the julian calendar?

they have god-like intelligence on most issues, and then on determining something simple like the date of a shift that happens "regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour" they have to approximate.

no one in the ra collective lived on earth as a mathematician in a past life? :p

i'm inclined to believe that ra gives approximations for 2012 due to a free will issue.

[E.J.]

yossarian,
thanks for a great post. i had forgotten about this ra answer. however, ra describes the force driving this clock as intelligent energy, and further defines this energy in the following way:


each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences.

q'uo defines energy involved in the harvest, in this way:


in terms of what is happening to the planet, the third-density planet earth on which you live is gradually exhausting its capacity to offer an environment in which third-density entities can incarnate. the energies have been strengthened, especially in the last ten years or so, as we said, by many groups such as yours who gather for reasons larger than themselves, and you have in common a great love for the creator and a great desire to serve the creator.

this whole-hearted stretching and reaching for the light and this growing desire to learn the truth among so many of your people have greatly aided the situation as regards the strength of the field of third density at this time. it is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. it is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. however, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over.


both q'uo and ra seem to be defining the same energy--intelligent energy.

first paragraph: so, even though third density is losing its capacity, by our actions we have the ability to increase that energy through love. (let's assume this is correct, ra does not ever say that this concept is inaccurate, and it would make sense that more spiritually growing people would be interacting with/utilizing intelligent energy through the indigo chakra)

second paragraph: this love and searching for the creator has increased the 'third density energy field' at this time. such a level as currently exists is 'very likely' enough to 'maintain third-density bodies' and the 'energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit' (which i take to mean the chakras [that is: our ability to spiritually grow by third-density means]).

finally, the time for third density is 'virtually over'. this is a key concept since, it is so close to being over that no new incarnations can be strictly third-density entities (as they then say):


those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as dewey. it is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. this is perfectly in order.

so, if no new incarnations can be third-density entities, they must be fourth-density. and if this is 'perfectly in order', it must be part of the buildup to the quantum leap. part of the asymptote that markm was describing.

although the q'uo say 100-150 years, and ra says 100-700 years, when you combine that time period with information that we have regarding the quantum leap, it makes sense (if you assume that ra and q'uo will not lie to us and/or can not be manipulated by carla's opinions) that the entire process of removal of third-density and transition to full fourth-density may take another 100 years. however, as part of this transition, when the quantum leap happens, our third-density bodies can not be in this space/time any longer. that's the part that the q'uo don't specifically state, as they don't specifically state that the quantum leap will happen after this 100 year period. they could be interpreted either way, and they probably meant it to be that way. unfortunately, the question posed to the q'uo in that session was about the "need for fear" regarding this matter, instead of "must the space/time quantum leap occur at the end of the transition from third to fourth density?" if we could ask them that question, we would have our answer (based now on their previous words and assuming that they are stating only truthful things).

it would also be wonderful if david could pose that question to ra for a channeling session.

regardless, in 4.5 years, we will know for sure.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[billybobbutterball]

if the moment of quantum shift arrives due to a peak of the energy in the galactic "clock" to use ra's analogy, then how can the time of the quantum shift possibly be changed by human consciousness?

snip

of course it also brings up the issue of why ra is unable to pinpoint the time of shift. if planetary consciousness has nothing to do with the exact time of the shift, why does ra dither and talk about approximations and vortexes rather than just giving the date? how hard can it be for a 6th density entity to work out the julian calendar?

they have god-like intelligence on most issues, and then on determining something simple like the date of a shift that happens "regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour" they have to approximate.

no one in the ra collective lived on earth as a mathematician in a past life? :p

i'm inclined to believe that ra gives approximations for 2012 due to a free will issue.


hi, y.

refresh time.

the ra reject the idea that they have "god-like" intelligence and insight; they underline that the condition of their communication is that they are not to be misunderstood as being infallible. even though they are not inhabiting meat suits they are still students in the process of learning i.e., their relationship with us is that of "teach/learning."

they have mentioned several times, that from their time/space 6th density, it is difficult for them to pin-point time/events in space/time, in regards to some "transitory" questions posed to them they have suggested that entities in the astral -- the earth's inner planes -- are better situated to supply practical information. you might recall that any coming earthly geological upsets are considered by the ra to be essentially transitory ... details of which have no special consequence in the long view.

hope i got the above right! (my memory also falls into the "transitory" category. :o )

best to all! billybobbutterbrained

[yossarian]

i'm well aware that they said that. my point was that they do indeed have "god-like" as in "like a god" as in "extremely super human" intelligence. it seems very strange that they can't manage something as simple as a calendar.

just one of those things that makes me wonder.

[kilork]

you know when you drive down the road and it looks like the trees are going 65 mph? you know that they aren't, you are the one moving, but it looks like its the trees. time is like that, it doesn't move, we do. knowing that makes it easier to see why ra would struggle with the time/calendar thing. it is dependent upon the subjective movement of other energies that we influence. thats my take on it at least.

[MarkM]

of course it also brings up the issue of why ra is unable to pinpoint the time of shift. if planetary consciousness has nothing to do with the exact time of the shift, why does ra dither and talk about approximations and vortexes rather than just giving the date? how hard can it be for a 6th density entity to work out the julian calendar?

they have god-like intelligence on most issues, and then on determining something simple like the date of a shift that happens "regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour" they have to approximate.

no one in the ra collective lived on earth as a mathematician in a past life?

i'm inclined to believe that ra gives approximations for 2012 due to a free will issue.

interesting.

i imagine this - a public school, full of kids wanting to get out when the final bell goes off at 3:30 sharp. what is known is when the bell will sound; what is not so predictable is at what specific time the last of the kids will be out the door, as there are so many potential variables, as you can imagine.


quote by q'uo, cited by e.j.:
those not in incarnation at this time will not have another shot at living on planet earth, taking flesh, and becoming choice-making, ethical, biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings, from the work of the one known as dewey. it is not, however, a cause for fear that this is occurring. this is perfectly in order.

snip
e.j.:
so, if no new incarnations can be third-density entities, they must be fourth-density. and if this is 'perfectly in order', it must be part of the buildup to the quantum leap.

note that q'uo is saying, "taking flesh and becoming choice-making, ethical biological units, as this entity likes to call human beings."

perhaps q'uo is referring to humans who have attained a certain age of majority, thus allowing them to be regarded more fully as choice-making and ethical. if the shift is in 4 to 6 years, no one born now will be much more than an infant. and if a child is born tomorrow with dually activated bodies, 3rd and 4th, do we consider that they are not human?


e.j.: although the q'uo say 100-150 years, and ra says 100-700 years, when you combine that time period with information that we have regarding the quantum leap, it makes sense (if you assume that ra and q'uo will not lie to us and/or can not be manipulated by carla's opinions) that the entire process of removal of third-density and transition to full fourth-density may take another 100 years. however, as part of this transition, when the quantum leap happens, our third-density bodies can not be in this space/time any longer.

agreed, although consider a 3-way split - those 4th density bound, whether positive or negative, may experience a sudden transformation at the 2012 era nexus, while the third wave, so to speak, meaning those who have not made a chioce to polarize, may wind up in 3rd density time/space for a more gradual experience of clearing out of the 3rd density realm.

q'uo is addressing a question centred around fear, and might be largely addressing the prospects of this third wave as a result. perhaps those not polarized may be more prone to fear of the 'end of the world' than those who have polarized, with q'uo being obliged to answer in terms of the question posed.

mark

[Deambor]

as many have noted, there are noticable differences between the type of chanelling by q'uo and ra, i'm not sure it's all necessarily only due to the narrow band used by ra, vs. not necessarily clear what frequency by q'uo.

i noticed that one of the major differences is that ra took it upon themselves to make sure that free will principle is not infringed upon by its information - they were very diligent about it, even at times paranoically, it seemed.

q'uo, on the other hand, in the beginning of each session puts this responsibility on the group. i have to say - it's a huge risk of interpretation here, which is not mitigated by higher intelligence, but is left to the human entities to control.

ra was much more, shall we say, technical, they would scan the group to check if the information could be used for their advantage in the future etc. q'uo doesn't do any of that.

i'm wondering: is it not because of this that the q'uo chanelling group was never attacked (or maybe i missed it, maybe they were?) vs. ra was always vigilent about it and at times would cease the contact for the sake of the group "safety", especially carla's safety. in other words, ra's contact was more dangerous, if you will, maybe in part due to it's purity?

love to all

deambor

[yossarian]

ra is naturally higher quality and more dangerous because it was trance channeling. carla would literally give up usage of her body, and ra would inhabit her body and use it. so when carla's lips moved, it was ra moving them.

q'uo is consciously channeled however, so q'uo basically whispers in the ear of carla and then carla gives the words.

the ra process is dangerous because if carla's tuning isn't perfect, a negative entity can take over her body and do whatever they want with it including killing her.

q'uo is safe because everything first goes through the conscious filters of carla, and q'uo doesn't actually have control over carla's body. carla can choose to stop relaying the whispers at any time, and she's aware of the message that is being relayed.

the downside of conscious channeling is that the incoming information will be naturally distorted by the channel. this is unavoidable. the upside is that it's safe - the only dangerous part is if q'uo were to say "jump off a bridge" and then carla chose of her own free will to listen to them. the message can be negative but it can't be anything worse than a message.

[E.J.]

i would also like to add that the q'uo are aware of the potential for their answers to infringe upon the free wills of the individuals present. they specifically deny responding to certain questions based on that. i do not believe it is necessary to state through the channeler, "we are scanning the minds of the entities present" in order to scan their minds. i know specifically, because i am reading this year right now, that 1996 has sessions where the q'uo refuse to answer specific questions (if you are looking for an example).

also, a great explanation by yossarian.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[wander-man]

i was thinking of something to post to liven up this thread, but i couldn't think of anything good. i want it to continue because it hasn't yet satisfied me in the way i was hoping (and because i'm trying to up the view count. 11,000 views? holy ****!!!:confused:)

--------------------------

i realize now that i was hoping for confirmation, yet what i received was a slightly more confused state of mind. so i guess i better cut my losses n

[SuperManny]

i was thinking of something to post to liven up this thread, but i couldn't think of anything good. i want it to continue because it hasn't yet satisfied me in the way i was hoping ....hoping for confirmation, yet what i received was a slightly more confused state of mind. so i guess i better cut my losses n
it looks like you are looking for an answer that will satisfy your ego/conscious mind, and the problem is that no such answer exists for you until/unless you create one.

sometimes it helps to realize and accept that there are things that we will never understand until/unless we experience the event(s). if this were not so, there would be no need to experience any events; you could simply play them out in your mind. hope this helps.
blessings
~manny

[twva]

i realize now that i was hoping for confirmation, yet what i received was a slightly more confused state of mind. so i guess i better cut my losses n

session 94:
"your question is certainly interesting and your confusion hopefully productive."

:)

[twva]

the ra process is dangerous because if carla's tuning isn't perfect, a negative entity can take over her body and do whatever they want with it including killing her.


and worse. if she freely follows a negative entity out of her body, her soul can be enslaved with no way out other than incarnation on a negative sixth-density planet.

[nem338nem]

friends,

always remember that there is always another layer upon another layer (thus infinity)! yet please also remind yourselves that those that have aspired and transpired to higher levels (may) see thier experiences as it relates to ours. thus "free will" disallows for a definitive answer to the future from anyone. for anyone or any number of entities may awaken at any given time. thus you have any number of variables. there is only a very generalized picture at that particular time. it's like a movie or a snap shot in time. in my opinion that is what is seen. now you have simultanious change, any number of events/experiences/assencions may or may not occur. that is what is seen daily. how can you catch the whole movie with free will involved. you can't. it changes by the moment. all quo and ra are saying is that there definite change on the horizon. don't try to clarify it put a time on it and fear it, let it happen. i think all they are saying is live in the moment with love in your heart. flow!

bottom line: "from the heavens, the viewpoint changes daily"

love, nelson

[E.J.]

all-

in responding to a thread in the law of one forum, i referenced this thread. i felt the subject's importance warranted a new bid for further discussion and review in light of the many people who have joined our site since july, and how the question of quantum vs. gradual shift is a concern we all have.

throughout this thread, i go into great detail comparing the q'uo's responses to questions about the shift and ra's responses.

if you aren't familiar, the q'uo are a part of the confederation of planets in service to the infinite creator along with ra. carla has been channeling them since the late 1980's/early 1990's. l/l research, carla's organization, has kept transcripts of the sessions through june 2008. you can find each specific session on their website www.llresearch.org.

the q'uo have given responses that have implied a gradual transition to 4th density. however, they have also given responses that seem to fit the quantum shift theory.

my posts will answer many of your questions. i highly recommend reading as much of the q'uo material as you can. it is wonderful to still have that positive contact with the confederation thirty years after ra's original contact. there is much to learn.

i also offer my constructive criticism regarding david's excellent case for the quantum shift. i believe we must give equal weight to the q'uo material and the ra material, because they are definitely both confederation, 100% positive, sources, and because ra's responses simply did not supply enough info regarding the shift (probably because ra needed to uphold the law of confusion). of course, the q'uo uphold it as well.

one last thing i would like to add regarding the confederation contacts. david's contact - ra - seems to be the same spirit whom carla channeled. it is important that we also give weight to david's channeling as well.

the bottom line here is that it is both quantum and gradual. i look forward to some new discussion, and i hope this re-inspires everyone to review some law of one and q'uo material. there is so much great information, and it can give us insight on even our most frustrating days.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[Aghsan Branch]

this is all very thought provoking. e.j., i went back and read the thread you linked to. it seems to me that although an answer may not be assured, the discussion towards one has intrinsic value.

i have some fragments of things floating around in my head, in a good way. ithink they're things i remeber from my own initial, limited foray in loo material, but its been some months and i'm just geting back into it, as other material cycles out of my field of view.

anyway, i remeber reading (somewhere, sorry no reference) that a 3rd density entity cannot live on a 4d planet and that any 3d who doesn't graduate will be flipped into t/s and then re-positioned on a 3d shpere elsewhere. but i also remember reading something about 4d entities needing time to learn to become invisibel to 3d entities...can anyone dispel my confusion with that one? if you see why, one case requires an instant acension becasue there cannot be 3d and 4d together on the 4d planet. with the other there's room for a more gradual passage to 4d.

anyway, here's my own take on the thing.

to say gradualist/immediate is probably too limiting, certain aspects of each idea can exist together in a scenario.

i believe that a much more dramatic physical change occurs from 2d to 3d than from 3d to 4d, because we have already developed the necessasary physical changes to necessitate consciousness, from 3d to 4d mostly consciousness is being further refined not the physical world (countless reports of human-like eti's attest to this) we'll be refined internally, to open up our internal world.

and so we won't die off like other species will or have or are doing right now. varying degrees of awakening will happen because we have all realized already differeing degrees of our 4dualityness (some are better healers, others obe'er's, other's channelers....) i don't think this shift will take away our individuality, we won't all become ascended masters instantaneously and this will also preseve a modicum of our free will.

we will all retain our uniqueness of experience and use the 4d earth as a much more harmonious environment for teach/learning our newly emerging abilities. if ra or quo have ever said such things already i apologize. but i hope this adds a little to the discussion.

[riCo]

i know you guys try to keep this discussion just based on the ra and quo material, but you also need to look at other information that is available.

there are alot of things showing us that the time around 2012 is actually very important. just think about timewave zero describing that we reach a singularity at this time. think about the several crop circles that try to show us that this date is important. several ancient calendars ending in 2012.
david wilcock describing that black ops werent able to look past 2012 with their devices and people hitting a bump in 2012 while trying to travel in time, where they gain universal consciousness. and alot more sources...

the newest information i found was, that even the roswell crash who ra describes in one of the readings as being purposely made, points to 2012.
here`s the link: http://www.delusionresistance.org/david%20flynn/flynn%20document.html

if 2012 would really just be an uneventfull date and we would be living 100-700 years in this third density earth, would they really try to show us over and over that this particular date is very important?
wouldn`t david wilcock`s intuition (higher self) have alot of times tried to tell him that he is off track with his predictions, because if nothing happens he would have to go through a very bad time i think.

you cannot ignore all these sources, they are strongly suggesting that the time around 2012 is very important and i dont believe that they are just trying to tell us that around 2012 there will just be a non physical shift, but we wont feel any differences. ;)

love & light
frederik

[EricLyman]

this is a very interesting discussion and i feel humbled being in the presence of such intelligent people.

one of the most valuable things that i have learned since becoming awakened to the metaphysical / spiritual world is that ultimately we, each of us individually, are best equipped to find the truth for ourselves through meditation or intuition. it comes from within, which is why ra and others are obscure, to encourage that truth to find it's way out.

this is not consoling when thinking about something potentially game changing, such as a rapture. our society is such that we'll always look for outside proofs first, this has worked fine for us in the past with science. and for our community here, we would much rather have hard evidence or direct statements from ra and q'uo. ultimately we don't have either of those things when we debate the instant shift vs. gradual progression subject. we do have enough sign posts to say that something is definitely coming our way around 2012, but how it comes about is best left for us to figure. so co-creator, what makes the most sense?

i'll offer an apology in advance that my post here doesn't contribute much towards one side or the other, these are just my core feelings about the issue. hopefully they are of use to some.

[Scott Reidy]

thank-you for that insight rico. i was also thinking the same. this discussion certainly has provoked (in a positive way i hope) - many theory's. both sides of the coin are heavily peppered with confusion and leave it up to us to decide what we feel is right.

the euphoria that was experienced by the black ops team when reaching the threshold of 2012 for the montauk project must be taken in to consideration, shouldn't it? infringing on free will is one thing, however a tangible experiment with real results that can be verified is another.

[christincook]

came across some stuff channeled by the same chick who did ra. q'uo suggests there will not be a great transformation quantum leap in the physical world, and we will live out our incarnations.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0101.aspx


"...we can say unequivocally that there is no reason to have fear [while] phasing out the stunning changes that are taking place on your planet at this time.

one reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. as the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet earth. consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes...


we are pleased, indeed, that groups such as yours all over the planet have enabled the third-density structure they do now enjoy as they have. it is extremely likely at this point that your population shall be able to enjoy uninterrupted and comfortable incarnations at the end of which lies the opportunity to choose the next classroom which you feel that you would best enjoy working in."

i was wondering if anyone else knew of this, and to get peoples thoughts as this seems to contradict many people's ideas on what will happen in 2012.

i haven't read this myself, but this is exactly how i've been feeling in my gut. just today, i posted a reply in the 2012 forum about how this is my stance on 2012, and whether or not there will be cataclysm/catastrophic change. its just not gonna happen. we're past the point of pole shift and catastrophe. the changes will be gradual.

[Eddie]

hey everyone,

i came across this post from dw a few weeks back regarding the channelings of q'uo through carla and the argument between gradualism vs. a sudden shift.

here's the link... http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32625&postcount=41

"just as a note here, carla has always been heavily biased, in the conscious mind, against anything noteworthy happening around 2012. this was the product of a lively debate going all the way back to our first shared appearance together in louisville in 2002.

i have only the greatest respect for carla, lived with her or near her for three years and supported her financially for two out of those three, as well as having a major impact on building four rooms in her basement and a shed on her land.

on this particular issue i believe strong conscious biases, and a lack of familiarity with the intricate interweavings of various passages in the law of one series, has caused the discrepancy. channeling is always a blending between conscious and superconscious minds, and even her unconscious work in the law of one series had a few minor inconsistencies -- such as the dating of the great pyramid's construction and the home density of jesus.

what i have done previously is to make a comprehensive, airtight and irrefutable case that 2012 is a "quantum leap" representing a "shift in the basic nature of the photon" making up all physical matter, right from passages in the law of one series.

in order to support the 'gradualist' model you have to ignore 95% of the relevant quotes to focus exclusively on one that appears to suggest a 100-700 year transition period. as i've said before, dr. mandelker and i figured out this refers to a transition from time-space rather than space-time. it is not specified one way or the other in the law of one, and by making it time-space it immediately balances with all other quotes.

i am now presenting this material in public lectures and you can find it in the site archives as well. read "law of one and 2012: the facts!" at the following url:

http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=332&itemid=30

looking at the actual quotes collapses the argument, at which time this becomes simply an embarrassing difference of opinion.

- david"

thanks! i hadn't seen that yet.

[wander-man]

the following quote seems to me like a big fat slap in the face to the sudden shift theory :


questioner: i will make this statement and have you correct me. what we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. these atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. this is partially correct. to be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. this creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

i'm not sure if this quote's been covered in this thread or another (i ctrl-f'd "bisexual' here and it came back red)

so we're gonna have some time/space sex? what's that like? does that mean i can mate with a girl from the greek era? or do the 3d lukewarm people who flipped into time/space mate and get their babies teleported to 4d when they pop out, and all they see come out is the umbilical cord?:confused:



what's the sudden shift interpretation on this quote?

[Djonne]

wow through means of bisexual reproduction, that may be a mistake.
maybe only through sexual means, because as far as we are concerned, woman-woman = nothing, and man-man = nothing. probably to me just a mistake, mispronounciation

and for the gradual or sudden change, i do not really mind, as we will all end up there someday.

[BenOne]

in response to bisexual reproduction i can see how this could be possible.
man + man = nothing because men have no means of creating life
women + women = possibilities; women have the means of creating and supporting life and need only a dna donation.

old stories on the creation of the human say that one human was created first and from it another.

if you look at developing anatomy you will notice that testes and ovaries begin as the same thing. as there are two of these, it is not that far of a stretch for me to understand how one could form into a teste and one an ovary. the sperm and egg could meet and implant in the womb and viola! this would produce a perfect genetic replica of a child. maybe that's not totally good. if we only self reproduced than it's possible for our genes to grow weaker or stronger into the future.

these bisexual (2 sexual organs) individuals could reproduce with others of the same makeup.

i think it was like this in the begining before the angels stole my rib!

[moderator note: in order to lead the thread back on topic, i point out that ra, when referring to bisexual reproduction, may have merely meant standard reproduction involving the two (bi) sexes]

[KassandraLoves]

[moderator note: in order to lead the thread back on topic, i point out that ra, when referring to bisexual reproduction, may have merely meant standard reproduction involving the two (bi) sexes]


yes! thanks mod! i was thinking this the whole time. when someone is "bi-sexual" that usually means they are "down with both" so the "bi" in question to me would refer to both sexes that are needed for reproduction...otherwise it might have been said as "asexual" or something like that....

[E.J.]

aghsan branch, rico, wanderman, et al.-

i apologize for not responding earlier, i am entrenched in the first year of law school. if you ever want a challenge, apply.

the question regarding 3rd density and 4th density entities living together is interesting. i believe it's safe to say, with the evidence presented in this thread, that the time period after 2012 will be one of transition. i believe too many people look to 2012 as a quick ascension into a heaven, so that all of their problems are relieved. unfortunately, this is the same human desire that allows religions to succeed in the world. the truth is, and david would likely agree, if we choose to be positive and serve others, we must grow spiritually. growing spiritually requires identifying what hindrances and problems we have and utilizing them as catalysts for growth. it requires embracing our frustrations and learning what really brings us happiness in life--love and community. while living this positive approach of spiritual growth, i believe the need for 2012 to be a quick ascension to paradise dwindles. as the q'uo have said, at this time, all of us now have the potential to graduate into 4th density at the conclusion of our physical lives. the ra said that our earth is just about 100% 4th density, and that was 1981-1983! it is evident that 4th density is present and we are still here in our 3rd density experience. therefore, on this side of the quantum leap (which i support, excepting the exclusivity of the theory), we have 3rd density beings living on a planet that is essentially fully prepared for 4th density experience. david said himself that through his dreams he has found that the densities exist on different planes of the same planet. it is essentially supported by q'uo and ra that the 2012 quantum leap moves our spirits into a new level of consciousness, however, there is hard testimony from q'uo that our 3rd density bodies will still be intact after 2012. ra only confirmed for us the time of the spiritual change and that 3rd density spirits cannot live in 4th density bodies. the q'uo also verify that fact.

so to answer aghsan's question, there is no testimony stating that 3rd density bodies can't live around 4th density bodies. again, markm raised some ideas regarding where the 3rd density people would live in this new 4th density earth, but i don't see why 3rd density earth absolutely must end in 2012. we can't even be sure that 4th density will be in full swing after the quantum leap. for all that we know, 4th density could coexist with 3rd density like 2nd density does.

rico-
i am alert to your other info. i agree that all of this points to a very important event in 2012, one that will be the most important for the human race.

kassandra is right on "bisexual" meaning "sexual" reproduction, specifically heterosexual. in the context of the channeling session, that is what ra means. third density bodies (likely with altered dna) will begin reproducing 4th density bodies for 4th density spirits. this concept gives us a potential solution to our quantum leap/transition dilemma. applying this concept, in 2012 the quantum leap in consciousness happens causing us to begin perceiving and sensing with a 4th density, first sub-level, consciousness. then, our children will have 4th density physical vehicles (all part of the transition that ra explained). thus, our generation will populate the world with 4th density vehicles after our 2012 dna change. upon our physical death, if we are prepared to ascend the steps of light to the next density, we will reincarnate into a new 4th density physical body.

think about it! it works.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[Desertrose]

hi everyone,

i have few questions and i hope someone has an answer them.

#1- when ra says:

"that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years."


a) does this suggest that those not moving up to 4d will remain in 3d, but time/space instead of space/time?

b) i also read somewhere that those who do not make the ascension into 4d will hang in the astral planes for some time. what does that mean?

#2- after we move into 4d or 3d time/space, what will life be like? will we go to work still? will our children go to school? go shopping? cook? build homes? etc..

#3- i live across the world from my parents and family. after the shift into 4d or 3d time/space, will i still make contact with them?

#4- what about ufo’s! what density are they in? they must be in 3d if we can see them unless they’re temporarily stepping down a density or two so we can see them.

my questions may seem trivial in comparison to the intellectual discussions that take place in this forum, but plz bear with me as i try to catch up

[Deerclan]

i believe it's safe to say, with the evidence presented in this thread, that the time period after 2012 will be one of transition. i believe too many people look to 2012 as a quick ascension into a heaven, so that all of their problems are relieved. unfortunately, this is the same human desire that allows religions to succeed in the world. the truth is, and david would likely agree, if we choose to be positive and serve others, we must grow spiritually. growing spiritually requires identifying what hindrances and problems we have and utilizing them as catalysts for growth. it requires embracing our frustrations and learning what really brings us happiness in life--love and community. while living this positive approach of spiritual growth, i believe the need for 2012 to be a quick ascension to paradise dwindles.
e.j.

ej,
great post. it's is always good to hear another person approach spiritual topics with a mature level of reasoning. i believe that it cannot be strongly enough emphasized that no spiritual concepts, 4d or otherwise, allow for an escape from uncomfortable inner or outer circumstances. i have heard and seen so many people try to force their spiritual beliefs into some sort of mental & emotional escape hatch, i am always glad to see someone affirming the reality that you just articulated. it is extremely important to avoid viewing the 4d changes as fuel for fantasies of escape from unpleasant realities. like it or not, our spirituality is partly a product of our own level of mental & emotional maturity. if we operate at a shallow & selfish level of maturity, then our spirituality will operate at the same level. as you expressed it so well:

"unfortunately, this is the same human desire that allows religions to succeed in the world."

absolutely. we need to challenge and question ourselves if we see ourselves indulging in fantasies more appropriate to childhood. as you put it, "hindrances and problems we have" need to be used as "catalysts for growth." or, as you also put it:

"it requires embracing our frustrations."

thanks for emerging for law books long enough to create a great post & share some mature thinking with us.

- paul
"deerclan"

[Mozart]

fun thread guys/gals.


mark m said:

[it's conceivable that we effectively continue with our present incarnation without missing a beat, growing old, having kids and grand kids, dying in house fires and of cancer... all in time/space, all necessitating a space/time experience of cause and effect, in order to share a consensus reality.]


bingo.


that's what seems to will have happened in our near futures -- that our familiar 3-d space/time reality (in which space has three dimensions, time has one dimension) would do a total flip-over into time/space (in which time has three dimensions, space has one dimension) so that our 3-d brothas and sistas can continue their lives without missing a beat, save for the "weird" 8 seconds of lost time during the big shift itself and except for millions of people suddenly being missing, as well as weird things starting to crop in their consensus "reality" of a mirror-space (like mirror-websites) 3-d space/time reality.


i talk to people face-to-face all the time about the 2012 topic and i hear a lot of differing opinions about this event, so what i have done is to approach it from 1) a scientific standpoint (military black-op stuff and dw's scientific information), then 2) an esoteric standpoint (the ra material), then 3) a historic standpoint (the mayan calendar, the i-ching, etc), then i finish with telling people to go to this website -- and you don't have to freak'n-a pm me for this site url, for it is mod-proof! ... it's www.divinecosmos.com -- for more info. <sticking my tongue out to our wonderful mods. ;-) >


so i've learned to present things in a nutshell in which people can do a very quick, easy download of this information and, if they want to go deeper with this, they can simply get to this mod-proof website, www.divinecosmos.com .


so here's my quick nutshell:


1) the scientific ~~

i have been telling people that there have been 3 independent military black-op time-travel projects and one n.. a.. s.. a..
time travel project that i know of (correct me here if i'm wrong) that all "hit" a brick wall with regards to the end of 2012. each one, when trying to move forward into time past the dec 21, 2012 date, has drawn white, blank screens/viewings in their respective time-travel projects (one of them was "project looking glass" and another involved other types of stargates).


none of them were able to go past that date, so some of them started to take a closer look into this 2012 idea and at least one of them has been in direct contact with our dw. so this scientific-based information dovetails with each other (the independent military black-op projects, that is).


i bring up the fact that remote viewers have reported -- as pointed out in this thread as well -- have reported a "7 or 8-second-long" bump in their travels, during which each of them experienced fantastic cosmic bliss that was like an orgasm squared. every single one of them. what is significant to me is the idea that this "bump" is about "7 or 8 seconds" long -- look at that number ... 8 seconds ... doesn't that tie in with the 8 levels in this octave of life experience? i pointed this out to dw in one of our person-to-person conversations in that i thought that this whole shift would happen in precisely 8 seconds -- one second for each level of the octave of our realities and david did not disagree with me, so, perhaps, this is the case.


another aspect of the scientific aspect of this information is the work of the late dr. kozyrev, a great russian scientist who discovered deep aspects of time and discovered that time is cyclic and that it can cause sudden shifts in our realities, measurable by science. this information is in dw's second free book, the "divine cosmos" book, in chapter 2.


i've explained to people about the scientifically-measured phenom called "effect quantization", in which an object that is shaken and moved changes weight in stages in accord to how strongly or how long it had been shaken/moved. the measurements wound up in clearly-differentiated stages of measurements. so, too, can the entire 3-d reality shift in a similar "effect quantization" stage in which the time-related energy (the flow of time with a build-up of energy towards the shift point in 2012) builds and builds until the big shift finally happens.


so that's the quick, scientific basis of the 2012 event.



2) the esoteric ~~

with this one, i bring up the ra material and this quote that had been quoted in this thread:


"this intelligent energy offers a type of clock. the cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour."


ra makes it clear that the 2012 big shift would happen at a precise hour; however, i think that ra did not specifically state that this hour would be precisely on the dec 21, 2012 day, on the 11:11th hour, universal time, because, had he stated that specific of a time, then he would have interfered with the law of confusion (e.g. the law of free will), thus would have messed things up and incurred more karma upon his own social memory complex, so he does not state a specific time, yet he states that the clock would strike the hour.


so i mention to people about the ra material and the fact that it is, bar-none, the very best channeled material in existence today. i also mention that many people/scientists have poured over the books and have yet to find any major error of fact in it; i also mention that there were a number of scientific (5?) things that ra talked about in 1981 that were not yet known to science, that now subsequently has been proven to be true, thus validating the scientific accuracy of this ra material stuff.


i also bring up the fact that the vast majority of the channeled material also focuses on the 2012 big shift, albeit in oft-distorted ways, so there's a lot of information out there about 2012 that is now starting to go mainstream in the alternative world. already there's a lot of websites set up about it; there's a lot of discussion about it and people are personally, internally feeling an acceleration happening in their lives towards some sort of bottleneck of a moment in their futures.



3) the historical ~~

i refer to the mayan calendar as a historical source of information and most people are familiar with the calendar, as well as the very famous "the mayan factor" book by jose arguells. i point out that this mayan calendar could not have possibly come from an indigenous people on their own. no way! no disrepect for the indigenous peoples of the mayans at all; nobody on earth could have come up with something that is as cosmically-accurate as this calendar on their own without any input from those who had the full info about time and how it would shift to another, whole-new factor of time that would be radically different from time now as we know it.


i also bring up the fact that the vast majority of the religions of the world refer to this event in their own ways, in their own words, yet nearly all of them are talking about some big-change event that would radically change life as we know it.



i finish with a reference -- writing it down or telling them or getting their e-mail address with which i can send them a url -- to this mod-proof website www.divinecosmos.com . i typed it out because i wanted the pleasure of not having something deleted by a mod. <nah, nah, nah, to our wonderful mods :-p>


so i try to cover this quickly or in some detail, depending on how much time someone has to listen and how much info they can take in before their eyes start to glass over. i can see the very moment that the "glass-over" effect happens; when that happens, i just shut the hell up and quickly give them the url for this website and go away quickly.

[Eric The Viking]

the lo0 material covers this.

without the veil placed between the self and higherself, consiousness was very slow to develop.

with equal forces acting upon each other; there can be no movement.

"no progress without imbalance"

[FIIISH]

this question persists despite all of my research of
loo and david wilcock's material to date.

i realize that we all must die a physical death sometime.
but, is a physical death necessary to ascend to 4d or higher?

if so, does this mean that all those who are ascending or
relocating will die a physical death in between now and
12/21/2012(or zero point)?

are the only ones left behind those who choose to stay
in 3d by holing up in underground or off-planet facilities, space stations,
and the like?

i would appreciate any thoughts on this.

[sheluvsheiner]

since i'm new here and new to this subject, i was wondering if being harvested means we die....speaking specifically about our bodies. if so, is it something that would involve suffering our would we just drop and not even notice, and our souls just move forward to a greater place? is there anywhere on david's site where i can read in much greater detail about what is supposed to happen? i've always feared death, by the way.

i am an 'older' mother - i have kids that range in age from 28, 16, 7 and 4. i'm so worried about my little ones. i wonder if they'll suffer horribly. i don't want to worry...i know i shouldn't....but i do. they are my little sweeties. my seven year old is special needs (sotos syndrome). i don't even know how to prepare them for any of this.

if death isn't necessarily a part of harvest, what can people do to keep themselves safe, and keep their families well? is all the "storage" stuff (food storage, etc.) a good thing, or will "god provide"?

thanks again.
kristy - [trying desperately to let go of fear, dread and worry]

[C-JEAN]

hello sheluvsheiner.

go there, the site of carla who channelled "the ra material" :
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/indexes/2006.aspx

and download the pdf version, january 1, 2006, sunday meditation.

blue skies.

[FIIISH]

c-jean,

thank you for sharing this information.

some excerpts from the link you provided:

"in terms of your living out your natural life, there is no physical catastrophe that is necessary in order to express the changes that the planet is going through. humankind is another story in terms of the possibility of planetary disaster."

so, according to this, not everyone has to die at the same time in some major disaster for the transition to 4th density.

"enough of those weapons of mass destruction going off at one time could indeed remove life from the planet entirely.
we are without concern as to whether this happens because of our being [unable] to do anything about it."

i find this interesting, as david has repeatedly pointed out that we are living in a highly orchestrated reality, and that we are being protected and have been protected from ourselves. perhaps q'uo does not have the access to prevent these sorts of things, but there are other entities that do?


"in terms of what is happening to the planet, the third-density planet earth on which you live is gradually exhausting its capacity to offer an environment in which third-density entities can incarnate."

"...the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over."

so, essentially, the show is over and is winding down, as far as this dimension is concerned. but, that is not the end of the road...

"this instrument is not afraid to pass through the gates of larger life. having done so, she is aware that there is nothing of which to be afraid. indeed, there is a great deal to which to look forward.

therefore, her life is not cluttered with the fearful anticipation of her own death. she is aware that, as she was born, so she will die. she is content to let the creator take her when her time comes. whenever that is, her hope is to have completed the patterns that she came here to fulfill. "

so, when your time is up, it is up. it seems there are alot of possibilities here, and much of what happens depends on what we create.
from this material, there is no clear answer, perhaps only because there are so many possibilities.

other thoughts are most welcome.

[Grant Clinch]

hello everyone,
we see the experiments that david mentions regarding the pyramids, and how, when they became more 'energetic' , they were able to move through their containment barrier unharmed, and re-materialize on the other side. if then we are going to physicalt moving into a more energetic area of space, will not our physical bodies by more energetic to ?... and or be vibrating at higher frequency ?
our conscious mind is part of us also, and will be aligned with the galactic center........ so, if we take this to it's logical conclusion, and put the two together, will we not be able to do all those 4th density amazing things, impossible in the 3rd density ? like, levitate, move through walls, and read others thoughts (i believe on this last point, that will require manners before invading someone elses head).

will all this then, help us create a new physical earth ?

these are my questions to the group, does this sound like a logical summary of all of david's information ?

love to you all
grant

[Grant Clinch]

hi,
i don't think it will be necessary to die to pas to the 4th density, the energy of the universe will be just flowing into us in a more energetic way, shining it's intelligence into us.
do we not already exhibit little glimpses of 4th density living ?... esp etc...

hope this helps
grant

[Truth Seeker]

will me maintain any physical kind of enbodyment? or will we be one combined vibrational consciousness? this may have been a query appropriatley put under the "law of one" section...:confused:so i'm assuming we vibrate faster rate in higher densities? thanks...

-seeker

[E.J.]

paul(deerclan) - thanks for your kind words. i hope, as always, that my insight helps others grow in understanding.

sheluvsheiner and all - if you review my previous posts on this thread, you will see that the q'uo explicitly say:

it is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. it is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. however, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over.

the q'uo tell us here that things have changed since the ra material was channeled and recorded in 1981-1983. because of the awakening of many people around the world, and many, many acts of service to others, we have offered/experienced enough positive energy to/with the earth to allow it to transition more smoothly through the upcoming 2012 shift. it is very important to notice that those currently in 3rd density will live out their lives to a normal age. along with other q'uo channelings and the ra sessions on 3rd density and 4th density bodies (as well as being "reincarnated" into a 4th density body as ra says), a meaningful picture emerges of our future. we will not "graduate" into 4th density until our 3rd density physical lives are over. however, all who are living at the time of 12/21/2012 will experience a change in their dna, which will in turn affect their offspring. we will be the parents of the first fully 4th density humans. at a time probably 100-150 years from now (as the q'uo stated and i cited earlier in this thread), earth will fully transition into 4th density. it is only at that time that our 3rd density physical bodies will be unable to live in the 4th density world. until then, we will continue to be able to live on earth, just like we are now in the "almost" fully birthed 4th density earth.

again, the crucial step that many on this board and in western culture must understand, is that 2012 is not going to be a "saving grace" that will "fix" everything immediately. however, it is the crowning event of an age, and a fantastic point in human physical and spiritual history/evolution. recognize that you, and all, will be able to raise their children and share many years with grandchildren. it is unconscionable to believe that, with our design as humans (with what each of us desires intrinsically), the shift into 4th density will require us to completely disassociate ourselves from our loving relationships and permanently separate us from our loved ones. such thinking is a product of those who search for a quick fix to their problems in life.

2012 will be a glorious moment for the earth, and we will change genetically, as well as begin to have a social memory complex, likely having that "sixth sense" tuned much more clearly. it will affect our world phenomenally. however, it will be a shift that isn't fully complete until our 3rd density lives appropriately finish.


as for mozart's perspective: mozart, nothing that you suggest (black ops, intelligent energy increasing at the "stroke of the clock", the 8-second lag, effect quantization) is inconsistent with my theory. remember, each person can currently experience intelligent infinity at any given moment: during meditation, sex, etc. there is no reason to suggest that, after the 8-second intelligent infinity experience which will genetically alter us and increase our consciousness, we will not live out our lives in 3rd density bodies with our children having 4th density bodies (i.e. that the transition will not be fully complete for quite a few years). to refute my theory, you must disprove one of my premises. otherwise, my theory is merely more elaborate than yours.

as david has so tactfully said many times, 2012 is an exciting and positive event. it is simply unconscionable that such an event would deprive us of our free will, and our 3rd density lives. it will only add to our spiritual journey.

peace in the love and the light,
e.j.

[transiten]

ej

that was to me the most easily understood and reasonable perspective of the "shift" so far, and especially the "easy-fix" part caught my attention.

what puzzles me is why i haven't got this clear picture from what david is saying about the shift. i haven't read everything through but listenend to each and every interview and covered a great deal of his writings.

is this a personal lesson for me, or does anyone else have the same experience?

transiten

[FIIISH]

recognize that you, and all, will be able to raise their children and share many years with grandchildren.

perhaps, but i don't see this happening in our current 3d vehicles.

sure, a relative few will probably survive the coming changes(think off-planet facilities and underground cities), but i think many will transition to other states of being.

the earth is over-populated. the current lifestyle of mass production and mass consumption in many developed nations is not sustainable. we are killing ourselves and the life of this planet with the very things that were created to make life more comfortable and convenient.

i don't think the majority of the population is meant to survive in 3d when these 26,000 years cycles restart. i think it serves multiple purposes, including giving the star system a fresh start.

in his latest c2c show, david himself stated something to the effect
that most people still don't seem to understand that we will most
likely be in light bodies before pole shift occurs. i think this means
that there will be events that occur that result in the majority of the population transitioning to spirit form prior to zero time.
how and when that occurs for the individual will probably remain a mystery until the moment arrives.

personally, i see the following chain of events:

galactic alignment > changes to the sun > planets > individual

what each person experiences will depend on their perception and their choices.

[transiten]

hello again..

well, then my confusion is back...suppose i just have to live with that and seek the love in the moment;)

[jwpatel]

hello i'm new to these forums but have read the convergence series and i'm working my way through the ra study material but there are a few questions that i would want to have others input on pertaining to the law of one. i wonder with the upcoming harvest in sight, should longevity be a goal to still strive for? should i not worry about long term health problems? also i wonder what to make of the incredible suffering that goes on on this planet and wonder how things like this are possible if in every breathe there is love and light and so much possibility for peace and so much beyond material wealth.

i am also under the opinion that factual information on the power of your unconscious, the power of torsion waves and information about zero point energy etc is being actively suppressed by an unseen ruling class that knows all the truths the we have long be conditioned to forget that knows of the changes 2012 will bring and want to for a lack of better words keep us hungry and dumb while they prepare for ascension or make arrangements to live on in the 3rd density be it on earth or another planet.

any sort of opinions or comments are greatly appreciated

[wander-man]

sure, a relative few will probably survive the coming changes(think off-planet facilities and underground cities), but i think many will transition to other states of being.

the earth is over-populated. the current lifestyle of mass production and mass consumption in many developed nations is not sustainable. we are killing ourselves and the life of this planet with the very things that were created to make life more comfortable and convenient.

i don't think the majority of the population is meant to survive in 3d when these 26,000 years cycles restart. i think it serves multiple purposes, including giving the star system a fresh start.

in his latest c2c show, david himself stated something to the effect
that most people still don't seem to understand that we will most
likely be in light bodies before pole shift occurs.




q'uo is saying there isn't gonna be a pole shift because we're so awesome -

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2005/2005_1121.aspx

there is a necessity, having to do with the difference between third-density energy and fourth-density energy, for the planet to realign its magnetic pole. this shift is occurring.

thanks to the many loving efforts of lightworkers such as this group all over your globe, working in relatively unconscious unity, but nevertheless being very effective in increasing the light on planet earth by their loving affection for it, it is as though this change in magnetic polarity is being accomplished step, by step, by step, rather than all at once.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2008/2008_0927.aspx

you will notice that the magnetic change that needed to be made has not been made by a pole shift, but rather has been made by small increments and even now, magnetic north, as this instrument would call it, is almost precisely at the place it needs to be in order to welcome fourth density.

thusly, we may say that indeed, in terms of the harvesting being prolonged past 2012, this was always a possibility if a pole shift did not have to occur, and it is now a near certainty, since the lightening of the planet has continued to take place, mostly unnoticeably and beneath the radar of politics and the larger consciousness of the society as a whole.

when i read these things i started dancing around my room. i think if you believe the ra material, there is no reason you shouldn't believe q'uo. carla's a pro. she's been doing this since the 60's. she's a master of her craft.

[denisfor]

do you know that you go in the 4th density each night. you indeed go in the 4th density each night in dreams.

in the first part of very deep sleep, you go in the 5th and 6th density but few of us can recall dreams at this level because it is so far away from the physical consciousness. the analogy is very thin bandwidth to transmit information through the silver cord to the pineal gland (third eye).

but near the end of the dream cycle and going back in the physical consciousness, you can spend some time in the lower astral plane which is the 4th density.

you will find earth there very similar to earth in the physical plane. you can find macdonald, and library and schools and computers and so on. people live there a life very similar to the physical one. most are married to the same person they are married in the physical and do the same job like teaching in my case. this dimension look very much like the physical one and this is why it is easier to remember dreams in this area. you also meet dead family members and masters teaching there and more et

most people walk and drive there, just a few can levitate and teleport themselves because of their level of consciousness. some can fly but not the majority.

it all depend on their level of consciousness and ability to learn and practise the law of the universe like the law of one also called the law of unity.

so switching from this physical life to the other life in the 4th dimension is really not a big change for most people who never practise meditation or astral projection or soul travel.

but the rule of reality will not change in the next 4 years.
many of us have been in atlantis 50 000 years ago, and we experiment this destruction, and reincarnate later

and we experiment another phase of destruction 24 000 ago (one cycle of 26 000 years after) and we again reincarnate later

and the next cycle 26 000 years later is 2012 so dont think
things will be different, we will have to leave the 3th density world (physical world) this mean death of the physical body

but this is really nothing, just like going to sleep and dream, you did that each night of your life.

so again we will see this physical destruction and will be able to reincarnate but the physical plane will not be very
well recycled so the main choice will be to live on the 4th density.

we will no have to reincarnate there, because we are already living in the astral plane, we already have an astral body. our attachment to this physical reality will make us choose the closest similar reality which is this 4th density earth belonging to the lower astral plane.

we could go higher but all depend on karma and mission of service in life. some people will be able to go to the 5th density and to the 6th and higher, and some will choose to come back to the 4th just to be able to help in some way like helping family members and children to achieve a higher plane of existence.

soul evolution and unfolding will not change in the next 4 years, it will just be accelerated. this process started many lifetime ago so we have thousand upon thousand of years of experience in this, we dont start at the bottom, we are not photons of light or atoms or rocks or microbes, we are very old souls.

this is very exciting process so have no fear. in fact fear will not change much thing at all but will just prevent you from appreciating life during this transition.

a huge network of prison is being constructed right now for those so attached to this physical reality that they want to survive at all cost. the illuminati took control of our money century ago, and especially now, they want to bankrupt the whole system just to lower the cost of material to build their underground city. so basically they use all the money in the bank of the world and all the money for our pension fund and all the money we pay as income taxes and all the money they can print or borrow and so on.... billions upon billions if you can visualize so much money, its like the stars in the sky or the sand on the beach. they think they will be happy in these prison cell without any liberty or choice. this is a marvellous kind of justice, the criminal in prison underground and ordinary people in heaven. wow, god have a sense of humour.

denisfor