Is there a good reason for suffering?

[AmelieJolie]

hey everybody.

this is something which has troubled me for many years.

is there a good reason for suffering?
or is this, 3rd dimension, a "spirit prison"?

i'm not talking about a bit of trauma you go through and get over, and stuff like that.

what disturbs me the most is extreme suffering- its existence- and why.

i sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, hope that by bringing this up i will not create suffering to any readers by focusing on the negative.

it is just something that troubles me in a profound way, i thought maybe by bringing it out in the open in a great place such as this, maybe positive new insights could result.

i found it interesting that david mentioned the movie "powder" in relation to his friend daniel, in the new 2012 video. (it's my favourite movie).

i am a sensitive person, i believe we can experience that which is divine in innocence. return to innocence.

what i'm looking for is a way to come to terms with the actual existence of such profound suffering in the world.
????

love & light.

[Gort]

i wish i had an answer for you to give you peace.

i have often pondered on this myself. i will try to convey some thought on this and see if it makes any sense.

if you study eastern philosophy you hear of ying and yang, a balance of good and bad. it gets pretty heavy once you go into the rabbit hole and start thinking about how everything is made up of particles and atoms and how they interact with each other. for every action there is an equal or opposite reaction.

so to put it into simple terms the things that make something good have come from the things that make something bad. draw a line and put 0 or neutral in the center of it. on the right side start listing the things you consider good and on the left of 0, put the bad things. a smile on the right should equal a frown on the left. it will all boil down to value.

when you listen to stories of inventors like edison you find that they tried thousands of times before they succeeded and created what they were trying to achieve. in order for us to understand pure unconditional love we have to have a value to measure it against. what makes something good, is how bad it isn't. so without suffering how can we measure pleasure?

looking back through time there was a tremendous amount of bloodshed compared to where we are today. one would think that as humans that we would have evolved enough so that there would be no more. i believe that the shift that is about to happen will be that graduation to a level that we no longer need to measure any longer because we will know that it does not need to be measured.

[dazcox]

i have this theory that we immortal souls choose to detach ourselves from the blissful security of the all-knowing, all-powerful collective, that makes up god to experience a reality that tests us to use our individuality to it's ultimate potential.

'win' or 'lose' this mortal life and you still return to being an immortal soul and like the old saying goes you 'don't take nothing with you but experience and love'.

but suffering, yeah, i don't think suffering is a tool as much as the satisfaction of overcoming suffering is and appreciating the moments when suffering is least.

"free will" l will always have an option for suffering but also a chance for you to find a solution to it...

[AmelieJolie]

i believe that the shift that is about to happen will be that graduation to a level that we no longer need to measure any longer because we will know that it does not need to be measured.
i do hope so, but i don't want to put all my faith into believing something 100%. what if 2012 occurs and nothing happens? but i do hope this will be the case, ascension. :) i feel ready for it, lol.


i have this theory that we immortal souls choose to detach ourselves from the blissful security of the all-knowing, all-powerful collective, that makes up god to experience a reality that tests us to use our individuality to it's ultimate potential.

'win' or 'lose' this mortal life and you still return to being an immortal soul and like the old saying goes you 'don't take nothing with you but experience and love'.

but suffering, yeah, i don't think suffering is a tool as much as the satisfaction of overcoming suffering is and appreciating the moments when suffering is least.

"free will" l will always have an option for suffering but also a chance for you to find a solution to it...

i'll go with that. ;)

[SuperManny]

i read something about pain and suffering the other day that i thought was very interesting. a hypnotherapist had a client with a painful, incurable disease. the client was looking for insight about his illness and requested a session to better understand it. the doctor attempted to communicate with his client's higher self and here is part of what the client said under hypnosis. [email manny for author/book info]

i chose this path long ago. i found that whenever i was suffering myself with a malady that generated pain, it helped my healing art. when one is in constant pain, even of low-grade intensity, it presents an opportunity—especially for a healer to experiment with the vibrational levels of pain with the body.

you can learn the fine art of adjustments in energy to relieve sections of pain. by working with my own energy in this way i learned to assist others more skillfully. being in constant pain keeps one grounded, anchored to the human experience. for pain relief one must be completely focused. it helps to have confidence that there is a higher purpose in learning to work through pain. i pay a lot of attention to other human beings who suffer from physical infirmities in life. i am able to help those who are receptive to the use of mind control for relief.

[Rhonda]

deep subject

i too have often wondered the plan, the purpose or why?

* could the experience of suffering, be a pattern of thoughts set eons ago that are now being seeded and lived out. is this the reason we are here., to heal the planet of these thoughts by placing positive (heart felt) thinking and actions out there to transfuse these and balance the waves of thought/imagination that is currently happening..

* the other purpose perhaps is our system (soul experience) is set up to give us all a scale to use so that we can gage our status. if we had no experiences that showed our innerselfs "suffering", could/would we be satisfied with just "being"? i do think this is the lower realms (3d) of our existance and experiences. because, when you are just "being" you are not thinking, you are in the present, not creating a new, which is higher dimensions.

we are moving ourselfs out of 3d (through your own work-actions) 4d and on. when each of us recognize in ourselfs that this is wrong, i.e. i don't want this type of earth life anymore, and begin to shift our thoughts, we are creating and operating into our new world. it is one person at a time.

our hearts will always be against suffering, we are loving beings. can we all settle with this fact only and just be and take back planet earth.


"without constructive thoughts to balance the overall patterns, the only things that broke though from the unconscious were fear and preducie and hate. what kind of pattern are you building, creating ? "


from the book w/ hugh cayce's editorship

what is time, what do you think it is? what is it like?

some people have describ. it as a string of beads, a string of beads that is moving steadily past man's fixed line of vision; he is only able to observe its passing in fron of him thru a crack in the fence (if we think of the body as something that confines and encloses us), so that he can see only one bead at a time, as it passes his restricted line of vision, although the whole string of beads is the reality, and all of it is already in existence. our experiences,
b therefore, are all strung out in time like beads do to alter the position of the beads on this string. we can only watch them pass before us. we are just a part of a great predestined pattern, we are stationary, reacting to the movement of events as they take place.

at 1st glance, prophecy & precongnition seem to confirm this unalterable movement of events, working with complete disregard of free will. this is one of the problems that will confront us as we begin to examine precognition and prophecy; because there is a very definite school of thought that does not accept that the laws of existence are rigid, that all events are preordained and inflexible. on the contrary, it maintains that man can influence coming events by the use of his/her free will. it even claims that it is man's moral duty to bring his influence to bear on the event which affects his destiny. what do you think?

do you have a firmly entrenched belief in predestination? or do you believe in the power of free will? that is, free will as a reality and not just a consoling theory? the power of your consciousness to stretch out far beyond its appareent horizons?

e cayce speaks of thoughts as though they are tangible things, and he insists that they are a form of solid matter. he speaks of this finer kind of matter as thought shaped matter.

cayce says that every thought we think is a creative act; every thought becomes a reality, in this finer kind of matter. thus we are constantly contributing to this world of thought-forms. your thinking process is a spider constrantly spinning, constantly adding to it web. every moment of our lives wer are creating these images & patterns, giving them life, energy and shape. these thought-forms contribute to the universal stock-pile, the stream of minds, the collective unconscious (waves, there is a river)

without constructive thoughts to balance the overall patterns, the only things that broke though from the unconscious were fear and preducie and hate. what kind of pattern are you building, creating ?

[Ewhaz]

i think pain and suffering seem bad, seem wicked and wrong but have a higher purpose. as one person mentioned, the higher self is the one that chooses to live in these conditions. i think the hope is always that the great catalyst of pain and or suffering will create a greater amount of growth.

we are focused on the pain, what we most likely miss is simply the great amount of growth people get. the great amount of resolve and perseverance, the ability to see the best in the worst and keep going. those are all the inside things. there is also the need to be able to truly appreciate the good, which sometimes needs the contrast of the bad in order to understand it.

some one born with a silver spoon in their mouth will most likely never truly understand their good fortune, however some one who's lived on the street would find being in this other persons shoes as an endless procession of blessings.

there is also compassion. when you see the children on those late time tv advertisements, for one dollar a day etc, you yourself feel the twinge of compassion and wanting to help, those children are catalysts for those who want to help! there are no mistakes, there is no chance, everything happens for a reason. i feel personally that we all choose to be here, choose our circomstances and even choose certain events in our lives in order to help ourselves and others grow. when you see suffering, look deeper, look for the love as david would say.

[Art]

i do hope so, but i don't want to put all my faith into believing something 100%. what if 2012 occurs and nothing happens? but i do hope this will be the case, ascension. :) i feel ready for it, lol.

i have been pondering along these lines for some time now, but don't have a good answer yet for suffering. in the end, most of the suffering is creating by cruel men, not cruel creators... i think the law of free will prevents interference.

i quoted aj's post here to offer a different perspective. isn't the purpose of our growth right now so that we can create "conditions" acceptable for the ascension event? in other words, i wrote awhile back about being proactive vs. reactive - participating/creating rather than observing...

i do believe in the cycles and that there will be a great influx of energy circa 2012, but we will also have to do our part to allow this to happen. and, whether it happens in 2011, 2012, 2013... or even tomorrow :eek: ...we, the workers of light right here right now are ready to service our brothers and sisters.

unfortunately i'm limited here - don't have time to elaborate or clarify. :(

art

[AmelieJolie]

i wonder why a monkey, for example, needs to incarnate into body that is going to experience extreme suffering and fear in an animal testing (auschwitz) laboratory....with pig organs sewn onto its body and such......(which leads onto another deep subject- animals and their soul journeys).

i feel one day that science and spirit will be one...that so-called scientists will be far less narrow-minded than they are today, incorporating ethics into their research, and they will realize that as everything is made up of vibrational energy, that illness, etc will take on a whole new meaning and medicine a new approach. and karma will be acknowledged. (i often think that by harming animals, people create bad karma anyway).

but why must such pain exist?

will we ever be able to go back in time, and soothe the suffering of such victims in spirit?

[dazcox]

i wonder why a monkey, for example, needs to incarnate into body that is going to experience extreme suffering and fear in an animal testing (auschwitz) laboratory....with pig organs sewn onto its body and such......(which leads onto another deep subject- animals and their soul journeys).

i feel one day that science and spirit will be one...that so-called scientists will be far less narrow-minded than they are today, incorporating ethics into their research, and they will realize that as everything is made up of vibrational energy, that illness, etc will take on a whole new meaning and medicine a new approach. and karma will be acknowledged. (i often think that by harming animals, people create bad karma anyway).

but why must such pain exist?

will we ever be able to go back in time, and soothe the suffering of such victims in spirit?i'm thinking that the individual scientists doing the experiments are the ones faced with the challenge of choosing to do the right or wrong thing.

perhaps there are many of them that finally choose the right path and use their expertise to work for ethical testing, but we don't hear about them.

i think that our job is do the right thing that is right in front of us. first step would be to fix yourself, do you have prejudices that hurt people?

hating nazis and the illuminati is all well and good but if you also hate the gay guy next door or the punk kid who writes graphiti on your street you're missing a chance to make a real difference.

[AmelieJolie]

anyone?

...........

[litllady]

hi ameliejolie!

i feel your deep soul and wanted to respond but honestly im not sure if we will be able to answer the reasons for suffering in this life. even if we accept the fact that we learn to appreciate the good in life from experiencing the bad, we are still overturned with the empathy of ones who suffer in this world.

i think mabey the earths sol is going through a chaotic time replinishing herself, mabey our karmic suffering is the effect from her or our karmic suffering is a effect from our sub-creators (i feel there are angelic beings which are our 'tone' with many octives that make 'us').mabey the 2 (our sub-creators and earths sol) are going through this 'reuniting' also)-point being i feel our suffering is the effect from another 'sol or sols' seperation. i feel that suffering links to seperation. it is just something that is from the cause of anything seperated from the divine source of life energy. -always to each their own here, these are simply rambles:) :)

what i find here lately is im always questioning the idea of 'would i be able to truly appreciate the good things without the experience of the bad'. is this what the divine light source of everything has to experience in order to 'sort' things out before things return to the divine.' then this idea leaves me to confusion even more because i ask 'if this is so, when we reunite with the divine, we wont have memories the family and love ones because we wont have grief and sorrow, suffering of missing loved ones'. mabey, there is such a thing as a good bad experience. everything bad brings a good somehow. my mind could do circles all day:confused: .

i have found extreme beauty when i forgive the ones who have hurt me most.

in a dream i had i was being rushed down a muddy river. the fear i had was ultimate suffering. i went from hating the river and its wrath-to accepting the river and its strength of just being what it is. this dream was so meaningful to me because i dont only question the reason for sufferings that are caused by people but also the sufferings that are caused by the earths wrath. i guess this being is because i lost a brother who drowned, ive blamed god and the earth and everything that is. why did he suffer that and why does my family suffer this? will there be wraths of any sort of suffering in another relhm? the good that came from this loss was a cycle of new love within my family. they didnt let it brake them(they were surly troubled and tried). this dream helps me understand that we live in a world where things of matter (even earths matter and our fleshy bodies) experiences the bad to get to know the good. ultimately this could mean that the divine light of energy has to experience this for itself through all of the creations. this goes back to since the beginnings of the creation cycle everything experiences for the source we come from. the matrix of light sorts the experiences out somehow and comes to know the full self of energy that it is.

when we observe the really bad things that humans do that makes others suffer purposely, they are full of self and are only reeking havick for their future self. i have a hard time thinking that someone like hitler would ever reincarnate to good-so then i ask 'is there a hell'. ide like to think there is not, but when we see what some of these other humans are capable of we find ourselves wondering these kind of things. i also find myself questioning if everyone has a soul. sometimes i think about the fallen angelic beings, and i wonder if they are paying for karma through us, to sort everything back to where its all supposed to be. as i said earlier, my mind could go in circles all day. im totally with you on the confusion factor of it all.

im not sure that i could truly appreciate the good things in this life without experiencing the bad. i find myself all the time finding things of beauty shining through this chaotic world. being the deep person you are, you must keep letting your light shine, for we are the light in the flesh.

the beetles song 'let it be' seems to ring wise words. but it is so hard to just let it all be what it may. for whatever reason, bottom line, i feel a great reason for our experiences of every single feeling and thoughts we have.

i have no great advice, but sometimes when we share thoughts we realize we are not alone in our confusion of this world, which is a beautiful experience in itself. :) much love!

peace to all,
lynette

[litllady]

i have this book that has a bunch of inspirational poems and such. i leave it open at all times in my kitchen. its a big fat book and its almost irresistable to others when they sit at my kitchen table to not read a line or two from it. here is something i found after i read this post...its comforting to me.

the dear lords best interpreters
are humble human souls;
the gospel of a life like his
is more than books or scrolls.

from scheme and creed the light goes out,
the saintly fact survives;
the blessed master none can doubt,
revealed in holy lives.


another piece i like is follows-kinda explains that this isnt all about just our experience-

our search for god is not a one way traffic. on jacobs ladder there was a coming down as well as a goind up.
while we are seeking god, god is no less seeking us, and it is because god is seeking us that we are seeking him. our search is our answer to his approach.
in all living faith actions, there is always a convergence of two movements, the godward movenet of man, the manward movement of god.
the one is inconceivable with out the other. as well explain mans search for god and leave out gods search for man as explain the movement of the times and leave out the attraction fo the moon.
god comes to man; man comes to god; and there is a meeting; and that meeting is on gods side a moment of revelation, and on mans side a moment of discovery.

the more im reading this book at the moment the more i am finding things that seem to fit this topic of suffering-here is another-

"i am the true vine" said our lord, "and ye,
my brethren, are the branches,"and
that vine,
then first uplifted in its place, and hung
with its first purple grapes, since then has
grown,
until its green leaves gladden half the world,
and from its countless clusters rivers
flow
for healing of the nations, and its boughs
innumerable stretch through all the
earth,
ever increasing, ever entwined
with each, all living from the central
heart
and you and i, my brethren, live and
grow,
branches of that immortal human stem.

measure thy life by loss instead of gain;
not by the wine drunk, but the wine pured forth;
for loves strength standeth in loves
sacrifice;
and whoso suffers most hath most to
give.

peace to all,
lynette

[AmelieJolie]

{{{{hugs}}}}

[Ewhaz]

i wonder why a monkey, for example, needs to incarnate into body that is going to experience extreme suffering and fear in an animal testing (auschwitz) laboratory....with pig organs sewn onto its body and such......(which leads onto another deep subject- animals and their soul journeys).

i feel one day that science and spirit will be one...that so-called scientists will be far less narrow-minded than they are today, incorporating ethics into their research, and they will realize that as everything is made up of vibrational energy, that illness, etc will take on a whole new meaning and medicine a new approach. and karma will be acknowledged. (i often think that by harming animals, people create bad karma anyway).

but why must such pain exist?

will we ever be able to go back in time, and soothe the suffering of such victims in spirit?

i'd like to take a crack at tackling this for a moment. a thought occurred to me as i was reading this.

as you well know, my opinion on suffering is that while it seems intolerable and incomprehensible at times, the truth of the matter is that we choose our life's path for the potential it gives us, and others.

so, in this situation we have monkeys apparently choosing to live a life where they suffer horrendous experimentation, loss of life and limb, pain and suffering at the hands of the experimenters. if we assume there are no mistakes, and that free will reins regardless of what may appear on the surface to be a blatant violation of it, what can we see?

well for one thing, the opportunity to express free will. by being available for experimentation, the monkeys provide an option in the time line as it were for the experiments to take place. in other words there are two possibilities (for simplicities sake) one for the experiments to not happen, and one for them too happen. in both situations the monkeys have to be available for the choice to be made. in this situation, they have become a catalyst for choice.

if you think of it in these terms you begin to see a larger picture where free will is given more paths, or less depending on who is willing to participate or not. on the surface it seems to contradict what we feel is right and wrong, it seems inhumane and it is, but there is more to the picture than what our limited vision can see while in this distortion.

however if you feel moved to stop violence against animals, then by all means do so! there is another bit of free will given to you by the situation being in place to begin with. an equal opportunity for good and bad to happen, and the choice to choose between them.

any way, i hope this helps, i know it is no consolation when thinking of the horrid acts committed in the name of 'science' or in any name for that matter. try to see the love, thats all you can do if you can do nothing else.

[FooSnik]

just a few thoughts to add to this great discussion.

i think it is so dense here that it is just so easy to forget and to get caught up in the fear and karma of it all. this 3d earth is like a tornado and it would take a giant to keep from getting swept away in it. even ra got caught up in it and got bound in karma and all the duality and extreme fear and pain that goes with it. right?

and also, i have read in many places that in the beginning we had the unity that we seek now, and, we chose to create the duality that we are experiencing now. why? because we wanted to, out of free choice. we got bored, i think. and now we are all desperately ready to have our boring old peace and unity again. (i am being sarcastic here but i desperately want it too.)

i think that there will continue to be the need to learn lessons, in the 4d, but i think we will be learning them in a different way. all of this isolation and fear won't be necessary. but maybe we will get bored and want to mess everything up again. i am sure somebody will.

for myself, i don't think i will ever have to come back again. i have experienced enough for infinite lifetimes. :)

thanks for the great topic,
foo

[AmelieJolie]

thank you ewhaz. this helps. i will think on it. ;)

thank you, lynette. beautiful verses.

[SuperManny]

i'm thinking that the individual scientists doing the experiments are the ones faced with the challenge of choosing to do the right or wrong thing...

i think that our job is do the right thing that is right in front of us....i think you hit the nail right on the head with that idea. there will never be any significant, lasting change until we as individuals stand up for what's right. when the scientist refuses the cruel experiment; when the soldier lays down his gun and says, "no more!", and when we all stand up for what we know is right. only then will humanity be ushered into a new age of enlightenment.

[Rhonda]

supermanny, i agree, each of us must find this truth within ourselfs so we can live as our real, pure selfs, fully. powered by the trust found within our innerselfs (heart) to take the appropriate action. exercising our freewill of the truth as we know it is.


lasting change until we as individuals stand up for what's right. when the scientist refuses the cruel experiment; when the soldier lays down his gun and says, "no more!", and when we all stand up for what we know is right. only then will humanity be ushered into a new age of enlightenment.

peace on earth and all that is.

[johnasmodeus]

hating nazis and the illuminati is all well and good...

umm, sorry dazcox, but if you really believe in this whole thing, then it's not. nazis and illuminati are people just like you who were born into different circumstances and times, made choices based on the information available to them, and lived/live with those choices. same as you.

hating anybody, even those our culture encourages us to hate, is a step down the separation path.

for amelie: yes, there is a very good reason for suffering. you can love a horse with all your heart, talk to him like a brother, brush his mane twice daily, let him sleep in the kitchen every night, all that; but when you're out riding and a bear comes charging out of the woods behind you, you won't hesitate a second to dig your spurs into his sides.

why?

certainly not because you don't love him. it's because you know that whispering to him, "ok friend, look back there. there's a bear behind us. now what i need you to do is start running and don't stop until we're far enough ahead that he gives up and goes to find something else to kill for supper. can you do that for me?" will get both of you mauled.

suffering keeps us moving. sure, we don't like it, but if we liked it, we wouldn't move.

[Rhonda]

johnasmodeus,

:) i got a smile and laugh out of your horse story. thanks

i saw a movie recently that reminded me about this phrase

don't fight hate with hate
don't fight suffering with suffering
etc..

you get the point.... it was a good reminder.... stop or change the the flow when you can from one idea to another

[AmelieJolie]

agreed, folks. it is time for humans to learn to think for themselves again. psychologists have proven that its the people who are unable to think for themselves who are most likely to be easily led into following a corrupt dictator without question. (i guess that relates to my concern about understanding the meaning of free will more deeply- we all have free will, but are only truly free when we begin to wake up).

i think that our job is do the right thing that is right in front of us. first step would be to fix yourself, do you have prejudices that hurt people?
exactly. i realized that by being a part of the animal rights group, although i was fighting for a worthy cause, i felt some of the tactics had a less positive impact. even though the only violence i saw was verbal, it still felt as if i was partly on the "negative path" so to speak. and i started to wonder if there was another, more effective method of spreading the word without becoming labeled as "extremist" or alienating oneself from the rest of society.....

i feel that there is good and bad in every person and all things.
its interesting, i have started to read the law of one from the beginning, and it talks about this- this duality in each of us.
reading it feels very- balancing. :)

"in every colour, there's the light-
in every stone sleeps a crystal".

(words from a song by enigma).

(the only side effect, i must say, of being a "free-thinker"- is one tends to be more prone to periodically being a loner!).

however, these things are often blessings in disguise.
it is only through a certain amount of solitude and detachment from other people's expectations, etc- that we can become fully aware of who we really are. :)

i just miss my fellow wandering brothers and sisters from that long lost planet.......

;)

[dazcox]

hating anybody, even those our culture encourages us to hate, is a step down the separation path.
hating an individual for the wrongs they have done might be the wrong choice, but allowing yourself to feel the hate for things that are wrong is not as wrong as bottling it up or looking the other way.

"bottling up" your hate instead of allowing it to flow through you and out of you 'until your whole body shakes' is healthier than allowing the hate to fester and possibly manifest into cancer.

i didn't say that, ra being channelled by david wilcock said that in his 'what is my purpose' mp3.

and it makes sense to me, i don't dwell on hating hitler or george bush or whomever i feel is an evil-doer, but i do get angry at the senselessness of war and gay-bashing and children being sold into slavery, it makes me angry and i enjoy a good rant and release, never at an individual (any more) but in general.

if i was faced with the choice to actualy do something to stop the things i hate i wouldn't hesitate to do the right thing. for example someone grabs a child and tries to put them in their car, i rush over to help the child escape and capture not 'project love at' the kidnapper, later once the child is safe i will purge my animalistic feelings but in the moment i must be more than passive.

[SuperManny]

don't fight hate with hate
don't fight suffering with suffering
etc..
i'm reminded of the prayer of st francis. (http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28481&postcount=2)

"lord, make me an instrument of thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love...."

[johnasmodeus]

hating an individual for the wrongs they have done might be the wrong choice, but allowing yourself to feel the hate for things that are wrong is not as wrong as bottling it up or looking the other way.

"bottling up" your hate instead of allowing it to flow through you and out of you 'until your whole body shakes' is healthier than allowing the hate to fester and possibly manifest into cancer.

i didn't say that, ra being channelled by david wilcock said that in his 'what is my purpose' mp3.

and it makes sense to me, i don't dwell on hating hitler or george bush or whomever i feel is an evil-doer, but i do get angry at the senselessness of war and gay-bashing and children being sold into slavery, it makes me angry and i enjoy a good rant and release, never at an individual (any more) but in general.

if i was faced with the choice to actualy do something to stop the things i hate i wouldn't hesitate to do the right thing. for example someone grabs a child and tries to put them in their car, i rush over to help the child escape and capture not 'project love at' the kidnapper, later once the child is safe i will purge my animalistic feelings but in the moment i must be more than passive.

i think you may be misunderstanding me. yes, i agree that expressing hate is better than bottling it up, but for either of these measures to be necessary, the hate must first exist. and if it exists because you see it as necessary to yourself for some reason, then by all means hold onto it and do with it what you think is best.

what i propose is simply that hating somebody for being a nazi is spiritually indistinguishable from hating somebody for being gay, or brown-skinned, or for wearing funny hats.

and as for the scenario you describe, i further propose that the expression of love need not be passive. did you know that kung fu was developed by pacifists? seems odd, but it's true. the reason that monks trained so hard at kung fu was so that they would be able to stay in control of a violent situation and defend themselves without killing anybody, whether intentionally or accidentally.

a punch in the gut, when you could just have easily chosen a potentially lethal kick to the head, is as valid an expression of love as a hug and pat on the head.

[AmelieJolie]

beautiful prayer, supermanny!

johnasmodeus, i agree- if one must defend themselves or another, it is much better to as little force as necessary- to injure rather than kill......

[Ashnandoah]

i recently processed a misunderstanding to do with suffering that may be of help. in my line of work i would come across pedophiles and their victims and of course grew a disdain for the pedo and a severe empathy towards the victim. trying to determine why on earth anyone would chose either of these paths was very difficult considering the brutallity.

while trying to process and love both i considered that the pedophile needed to incarnate in this dimension in order to learn the consequences of power and control in a very intense manner and or the intense need to show self and offer others the possibility of forgiveness, a most invaluable lesson. as for the victim perhaps needing to intensify the lesson that being a victim enables the power play and also learning to forgive and acquire the respect and love of self and other self.

hope this helps in some manner
love and peace

[Rhonda]

thanks for sharing, your work puts you in difficult experiences, yet you still look for the answers to deeply understand that experience and perhaps purpose. that alone has to give some peace to the heart.

our experiences sure make us evaluate .....

much love, r